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By the Author of The Devil's Free Will

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Featuring Dan Peterson's Email Exchange with the Author of the Moroni the Alien Site

This exchange is truly remarkable and worth reading to the end. If you are among the unfortunate of humorless or humor-challenged anti-Mormons, you may not want to read further.                      Source: http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/mail/dan_mail.htm

"The Worst": The Mormon correspondent's writing is this font.  {Comments are like this}
"Translated-Correctly.com's"  replies are this font. [ Comments like this ]
"Translated-Correctly.com's"  later remarks are [ like this ]

The Worst's comments:  "The ugly offensive explicatives [sic] have been deleted for your protection.
All swear words, such as the words Jesus {J****}, Christ {c****} , socks {S*****) [!],  bull {B***} god {G**} have been censored".

This material was taken from Worst of the Anti-Mormon Web, sans permission.  Sue me.  


From: Daniel Peterson
To: roswell@NOWSCAPE.COM
Date: Saturday, December 27, 1997 11:01 PM
Subject: Comment

Your bit on the God of Mormonism being a space alien  [link] was astoundingly puerile and stupid.


From: roswell@NOWSCAPE.COM
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 3:29 AM
To: Daniel Peterson
Subject: Re: Comment

OK, puerile.. but why stupid?


Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: Comment

To whom, etc.:

Since your site invited comment, I remarked that "Your bit on the God of Mormonism being a space alien was astoundingly puerile and stupid."

In your reply, you agreed that it was puerile, but asked why it was also stupid. I am happy to oblige with an explanation. First, permit me to quote the passage on which I made comment:

"Mormonism is based on the opinion that an Extra - Terrestrial Space Alien from a planet in another solar system, who glowed, hovered and spoke English, visited a farm boy in New York, circa 1820. The alien explained, amongst other things, about lost tribes of Israel, told of the existence of iron smelters and money and horses and cows and cureloms and cumoms in pre-Colombian America, and illuminated other Truths."

This passage is stupid because, among other things,

(a) It seeks to score points by the use of mocking language rather than by argument. Mormons never speak of God as either an extraterrestrial or a space alien.

Replies by yours truly, the Worst Anti-Mormon, are sometimes marked by "---".

--- So?  Mormon's gods ARE from space, are they not? You're already not scoring points by argument. YOU have been to the planet KOLOB  (
in the constellation Cancer, right?) -- you ought to be able to recognize your fellow ETs.

Besides -- mockery alone does not a stupid argument make, stupid.

That is language of your choice, clearly for purposes of denigration.  [What a stupid idiot, to tell me that I, the writer, wrote this. In Mormonism such counts as an argument]

--- Yes; So?

But misrepresentation of the position of your opponent in order to make his or her position less tenable than it really is, or

-- So far you score big on pseudo-intellectual gobbledygook, but I'll read on to try find the meat here...

to make it easier to refute, is classically known as "the straw man fallacy."

 Falling into logical fallacies is stupid.  

---  And I know the Book of Mormon is true, because it tells us so,  B***s***. {The Worst comments: The ugly, offensive explicative has been deleted. This is, after all, a family [Translation:  a Mormon site] site.}

(b) It misrepresents the historical claim made by Joseph Smith and, on his behalf, by Latter-day Saints ever since.

--- please say what I got wrong; tell me, and I'll fix it.

 (The straw man fallacy again, by the way.) There is no account of Joseph Smith's "First Vision," to the best of my knowledge, that has either the Father or the Son say anything, even a single word, about "lost tribes of Israel" or "the existence of iron smelters and money and horses in pre-Columbian America."

--- don't blame ME if there is no account of it. If there is no account of whatever you're talking about, then I suppose any speculation is fair game.

I assume that you have the First Vision mixed up with the visit of Moroni, which occurred some years later. Even if that is the case, however, it is doubtful that Moroni spoke of the things you mention.

--- Yes... I probably did get my visions mixed up. Sorry.

It is debatable, in fact, whether the Book of Mormon itself speaks of them in the way you imply. Thus, your description of Joseph Smith's experience distorts the historical sources. And making egregious, indisputable, and easily detected historical errors is stupid.

--- an easily detected error was made by Smith -- there were no hoses, cows, silk, iron or steel, money, etc. in pre-Colombian America. Get an education; read a book.:) J**** c****, people like you irritate the s**** {The Worst comments: As is the editorial policy of the Worst, the ugly offensive explicatives [sic] have been deleted.} off of me!

(c) Your apparently ironic mention of the fact that God, according to Joseph Smith's accounts of his First Vision, was able to speak English, scores a cheap point.

--- I think even more to the point, for example, omitting viruses from the creation would have been even easier. G**, {The Worst comments: Okay, so you get the idea.} you're a goof-ball.

But it would seem that ability to speak English would be among the least of the capacities pertaining to any plausibly divine being. If he can create the world, presumably he can also learn to conjugate the verb "to be." Thus, this point is easily shown to be a cheap shot. And making cheap shots that are painfully obvious as cheap shots is stupid.

I am pleased that I can be of service.

Cordially [sic],

Daniel Peterson

 

-- thanks for writing.

 






The Worst comments:
Dan
[Peterson, the correspondent here]  has too much fun with the ugly, offensive explicatives.
So I have edited them all out for your protection.)



You are in worse condition than I had anticipated. And probably not worth much more of my time. So, unless you have a cogent response to the following, this will be my last posting to you.
[Oh, goody!]

You write, "YOU have been to the planet Kolob (in the constellation Cancer, right?) -- you ought to be able to recognize your fellow ET's."

Hostility doesn't count as an argument. [Oh? Fire and brimnstone is hostility, and it supports the notion that one ought to strive to go to heaven, no?] And the constellation Cancer? I'm fascinated to learn where Kolob is. You're the first person I have encountered who claims to know.

--- I think YOU should know where your pre-existence was hatched. I'm an earthling, and I have it on authority from Mormons that they hail from Kolob. It's BYU's astronomy department, BTW, who puts your home planet in Cancer. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks for volunteering not to write back. Perhaps this will have been some impetus to LOOK UP your beliefs.

--- It appears from the below, that there is no meat! (boy, am I surprised!) Pre-Colombian iron barb with which to poke back! Nothing shows why I'm wrong. For one who likes to throw about the word 'argument' as much as you, you certainly haven't given one. Me, I put less weight on argument as I do on humiliation and denigration. Argument is a waste of time with closed-minded religionist apologists like you. God knows I've tried. Sow me a pre-Colombian coin, for ch***t's sake! Show mw as much as a f***ing {The Worst comments: The ugly, offensive explicative has been deleted.} pre-Colombian pay-lay-ale fish-hook. You're an idiot, and the really humiliating part is that *I* am expected to pay for it all. That's because churches get to weasel out of paying their fair share of the tax burden. Sorry, It just irritates me. So you see -- you win, after all! But we'll both agree ,I think, with the words of the prophet Smith, when he said, (in Adamic): "Ette ateg legma, hunni atte smegla nu". I'd only add: "Only a fool would have a false religion".

 

As to my theological position, you remark, "It's hard to make it LESS tenable, my friend."

I must have missed your arguments, evidence, and analysis. Possibly a computer glitch.

"So far," you say, "you score big on pseudo-intellectual gobbledygook."

Sorry if I write over your head.

I wrote, "Falling into logical fallacies is stupid."   [... a real brainer!]

You replied, "Bullshit." [Ha!  The momo correspondent forgot  to censor "Bullshit." ! How can the web ever be made safe for children?]  A very powerful counterargument. I assume, from what you say, that you do *not* regard committing logical fallacies as stupid. That's an interesting position to take, but I can imagine that it makes life easier for you.

I pointed out that your summary of the First Vision  "misrepresents the historical claim made by Joseph Smith." You respond, incorrectly, that "you only CLAIM I mis-stated, you didn't say what I got wrong."

But I *did* say what you got wrong. I expressly noted that "There is no account of Joseph Smith's 'First Vision,' to the best of my knowledge, that has either the Father or the Son say anything, even a single word, about 'lost tribes of Israel' or 'the existence of iron smelters and money and horses in pre-Columbian America.'

In other words, not one of the items that you mention as having been conveyed to Joseph Smith in the First Vision appears in any account of that vision. That's at least four errors in one sentence.

Thus, your response -- "don't blame ME if there is no account of it. If there is no account of whatever you're talking about, then I suppose any speculation is fair game" is misguided. Because there *are* accounts of the First Vision, and, although they give many details, they fail to support your claims. So you are not free to speculate as if there were no evidence, any more than I am free to speculate that World War II began in the nineteenth century or that Lincoln's Gettysburg Address was about microchips.

You claim that "an easily detected error was made by Smith -- there were no ho{r}ses, cows, silk, iron or steel, money, etc. in pre-Colombian America. Get an education; read a book.:)"

I *have* read a book. Have you? Because your claim here is highly debatable, on several counts, and you don't seem to be aware of that. It makes serious students of the subject laugh. (For which I thank you. Life can be too dreary sometimes.)

"Jesus christ," you say, "people like you irritate the shit out of me!"

I certainly hope so. When you are finally cleaned out, it will improve your thinking.

"God," you conclude, "you're a goof-ball."

But it wasn't clear whether your concluding comment was addressed to me, or to God. So I don't know how to reply, or whether I am even the one who should. And I'm not going to waste any effort on trying to figure it out. (God will presumably reply when it suits him.)

Cordially,

Dan Peterson


To: Hi
Subject: Re: Comment

Ooh. You're irresistable. One more time, and then I really must give this up.

"It's BYU's astronomy department, BTW, who puts your home planet in Cancer. Correct me if I'm wrong."

You're wrong.

--- you're right! BYU does not even have an astronomy department. Not much of biology, either! HA! (I made that part up. forgive me). But BYU has a strong Business department! Everyone in that writhing mating tank is taking business and "education"! Critical thinking is right out. Tax exemption is in, of course. Art, of course is out, as all the world learned recently by the censorship on campus.

 

--- you're right! "{{{{[ I ] }}}}   [<-- Here is indicated 4 levels of Mormons' censorship]  I put less weight on argument as {than} I do on humiliation and denigration."  :)

That's fairly obvious. But it isn't working with me. Sorry, but I can only be humiliated by or before someone whose opinion I value.

--- I can be humiliated by someone  whose f***ing {The Worst comments: Of course, the ugly, offensive explicative is deleted.} religion I'm forced to pay for.

"Argument is a waste of time with closed-minded religionist apologists like you. God knows I've tried."

You haven't tried it with *me*. You haven't even recognized the arguments I've supplied to you.

--- Yes, I haven't tried with you. [ I recognized no argument; I don't think you made one ]  I gave you some hooks to nibble, but alas no iron-clad evidence of pre-Colombian fish hooks will ever come from you. It's Smith whose goofy imaginations you swallow, hook, line and sinker. Get an education; read a book, for christ's sake.

[You say ]  "S{h}ow me a pre-Colombian coin, for christ's sake!"

Why should I? I don't have faith that there were any. Show me where the Book of Mormon text says that there were. (Don't point to the recently-added, and non-canonical, chapter headings. I mean the text itself, as it appeared in 1830.)  [ Wow... today's text is wrong, after all!  Was it translated correctly?  HA! ] You know, you really are behind on the issues. This one has been dealt with, over and over and over again. I'm embarrassed for you.

[You say ]  "You're an idiot."

I assume that means you give up. I don't blame you. In your shoes, I would too. But I think we can both agree, in the words of yet another prophet, that "anteh himaar."

---- Hm... I see you speak Adamic. But I must really take you up on your kind offer and ask you to not bug me again. Or I'll turn you into a white salamander.


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{The Worst comments: Actually, "anteh himaar" is Arabic. For those who simply must enjoy the irony, it means something like, "you are an ass." And fortunately and perhaps mercifully, the correspondence ended.}

This material was taken from Worst of the Anti-Mormon Web, without permission. Sue me.  

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