"When our leaders speak, the THINKING has been done."
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96
Subject: I am very sorry
This probably does not mean anything to you but without you and your web page,
I would have married a return missionary in the San Diego Temple this September.
I thank you sincerely for helping me to realize that blind faith is not right.
I do not know if you ever received my other email, but if you did I would
like to apologize for what I said. After reading your web page, I began to
think and to question what I believed. I realized that I did in NO way
agree with the church even on some of there basic principles. I was a
recent convert and very excited, but I failed to question myself or the
church. When I finally began to, I noticed that it was looked down upon to
question any of the church's teachings. I am leaving the church and
planning on looking for another church that encourages questions and concurs
with my beliefs in the scriptures.
I am very sorry for jumping on you and your web page.
(name not published)
Gardiner Moody converts to Atheism
I remember your letter. I'm happy to hear that you have re-examined Mormonism; maybe you even re-thought the idea of religion. Letting me know that I have affected your life in a good way means a lot to me.
I showed your letter to my girlfriend just now, and her first and only reply was, verbatim: "You should attack her for joining another church." My sentiments, too; JoEllen, my friend, it's not over until it's over.
The reason - not the main reason - why I chose to attack Mormonism is that it is a particularly easy target. I'm lazy :) Mormonism is a recent religion, it has a long and wide trail of deception (see "No Man Knows my History" by Fawn Brodie, for example). Christianity, has the same problems, but it seems more natural to us because of its antiquity and its firm entrenchment in our culture. I could almost as easily have written, made fun of, belittled and emphasized in my sometimes unkind way, the goofy "Wholly Babble" stories we are expected to swallow, hook, line and-sinker. I could have examined the evidence for believing in gods of any kind; but others have done this much better than I.
I am very happy for you that you have found a way to shed yourself of this particular religion. You also saved yourself a pretty penny by taking this action. Your tithing would have added up to a substantial amount over your life. You have also saved me -- yes, me, some real money. The ten percent you would have given the churches, if you live in the United States, would have been tax deductible, yes?. Uncle Sam would have come to me, hand out-stretched, and asked me to make up that difference. Thank you for that. (And ask them for a refund, while you're at it, after all, that money was extracted under false pretenses!)
I wish you goodness in your life. I'm glad to have made a difference, and thank you for telling me. I want to remind you of the sentiment my woman expresses, and I want to close by telling you: Question Everything. Except for the previous sentence, of course! :)
Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999
Subject: Web site....
Does the temple ceremony strike anyone else as just a little heavy
handed and ritualistic, and this from a church that professes no rituals? By
being threatened with your life, the members are kept from discussing what
goes on there. When the idea that the Masonic teachings predate Mormonism is
presented, the Mormons say that the Masonic rituals are a corruption of the
rituals practiced in Solomon's temple, and have been brought back in their "true"
and correct form, inspired by the Lord through Joseph Smith!
By admonishing members not to read, what they call "anti-Mormon
literature" they keep them completely indoctrinated, while professing to
allow everyone to think for themselves. It is interesting to note, however,
when other groups and religions attempt to disclose what the Mormon religion
teaches, they always manage to misrepresent it and their list of beliefs as
held by LDS members is usually incorrect.
There is only one "true" answer to most of everything in the LDS
church, from policies, to "commandments" to interpretation of the scriptures
to using only "approved" literature for church classes and meetings. The
reliance on "modern day revelation" allows for all kinds of changes to be
implemented. Even revelation is deemed appropriate only for your specific
"calling" in the church.
Did it occur to anyone that Joseph Smith, in "translating" the
"golden plates" into the Book of Mormon, behind his curtain, with a scribe
(wife, Emma and others at different times) on the other side with his Urim
and Thumim (which are, after all-seer stones!) was a terrific "channeler" or
"medium!" Did anyone ever actually "see" Joseph Smith translate anything?
Makes one wonder.
It is unfortunate that anyone who challenges the Mormon religion;
it's practices and teachings, is almost always branded as someone who has an
ax to grind, bitter, or angry or had his feelings hurt. The standard
reasoning in the LDS church is that they are being influenced by "Satan."
The other standard retort is: "the church is true, but the people aren't"
Then follows the big "forgiveness," challenge. Somehow, anyone who has had a
bad experience, been hurt, or challenges the teachings, needs to practice
"forgiveness." This plays into the "Satan" thing which is their big ace in
the hole as it explains everything that isn't totally in line with LDS
teachings. Every teaching is seen as either "right" or "wrong," and right is
"true" and "wrong," is from Satan!
The teachings of Jesus from the Bible, when practiced can certainly
enhance and make meaning of our lives. One can't argue with such ideas as:
love your neighbor as yourself, as I have loved you, love one another, and on
and on. There are obviously great lessons in the scriptures, as there are in
any sacred literature and that holds true for the four standard works of the
LDS church the Articles of Faith, etc. It is the standard, only true
"interpretation" as held by the LDS church that challenges logic and
The idea that there is only one true church is a bit arrogant and
pompous. The Mormons are not alone in that claim. The Catholic church says
the same thing! But then, what would a false church be? How can a belief
system be classified as true or false? It is a matter of faith, and faith
only works if you believe it! We are not talking about science here, or facts
for that matter much of the time.
There should be nothing wrong with talking about anything in any
church, and that includes the temple ceremony in the LDS church. Why would
there be any reason to NOT discuss the ceremony? What could possibly be
wrong with that? And, it makes one wonder, if the temple ceremony, as
participated in my thousands of members all over the world is so "sacred" it
cannot be discussed, how many other, so-called "sacred" things go on? If the
masses can be subjected to absolute secrecy, (of course, the threat that your
life will be taken can make one just a little hesitant to reveal anything!)
surely the leaders (all men, by the way) can easily be subjected to even more
secrecy, especially if they are told that there are certain rituals and
policies that are to be held so sacred they cannot be revealed. Certainly
gives one pause!
There is another discussion of the idea that the women is to follow
the man, and the temple promises there are a bit daunting. Never mind the
idea that both men AND women are anointed to be kings, and queens, and given
the garment of the holy priesthood to wear. And then the men figure they are
the only ones who "hold" the priesthood? That is another whole discussion!
And of course, there is the "money" and "power" thing that is at the bottom
of most organizations. I have concluded that "organized religion" is an
These are just a few of my thoughts on the subjects as presented in
your web page. I would be interested in chatting with others who may have
similar thoughts and ideas.
Date: Sunday, April 18
Living as a Catholic kid in Salt Lake City, I grew up with the suspicion that Mormons were a little "different" from everyone else. There were other Christian denominations there - Methodist, Lutheran, etc., and my mother is Baptist, but none of those other flavors of Christianity had the oddness I sensed from the Mormon religion. Little did I know how just how odd! Kolob?
Spirit children? Extra-terrestrial polygamy? I'll make it a point to discuss some of these things with my Mormon friends here in Arizona.
Thanks for the enlightenment,
I just wanted to write and say thanks for the great site. A group of Mormons go about my town, and try to convert folk to their religion. After listening to them over at my girlfriends apartment a few times (She really gets a kick out of their speeches), I decided to do some research on the Mormon religion. This site is truly eye opening to the Mormon beliefs. I never new that God practiced Polygamy, or that there were people living on the moon. I guess they eat the cheese up there. The next time they are trying to convert us, I will have to discuss these points with them.
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999
I think that this site is great, It is about time that some one tried to clean the earth of Masturbation. I am not a Mormon but I have recommended this site to others in the hopes that they will turn to Christ. As for those that say that it is God's will, the Bible has the story of Onan, who spilled his seed on the ground and that God was very displeased. Also the Bible states that our bodies are made in the image of God and that we should respect our bodies as we respect a church. I hope that you will continue to help those in need and ignore all of the letters from those who say that this sin is within God's will.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 03
Subject: I like it!
This is a great synopsis of the Mormon "plan of salvation." I have been practicing for years and there is just far too much information to say that I know it all.
This article makes a mockery of the religion, but there are still
interesting facts and information.
Joseph Smith was quoted in the early 1800's, "there are more worlds in the universe than sands on the seashore."
It's fun to watch astrology try and catch up with divinity.
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 1999
As an "ex-mormon for Satan" I want to thank you for the chuckles. Do you have any forms I can download for tithing rebates. I want to cash in my celestial IRA early. The penalty, of course, is sanity. However, that can be tempered by good doses of heretofore prohibited alcohol.
By the way, where were you when I needed you at that zoo in Provo? I can't wait to send my ex-wife/RS President to this site. She thought I was the only one. Maybe she can acquire a sense of humor as one of her spiritual gifts.
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999
Subject: honesty and mormons
I wish I had a dollar from every mormon who has denied knowing about Kolob only to detract their statements when I hit them with the facts from their own writings, many new mormon converts are shocked when they learn about these "teachings", I have to wonder about mormon ethics and honesty when they don't just lay everything out on the line to people. thank you, mike
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999
A friend of mine is dabbling in this religion, and I was concerned, so I was looking around, and stumbled across your web site. Over the course of a couple of days [...] I read just about your entire site. I have to say this is an incredible site. Well written. I like that much of what is said uses the book of Mormon to debunk the book of Mormon. I feel like I know a lot more because of your site. Thank you. I would like to see more about some of the Wacky beliefs having to do with other planets, and how the diagram that shows "you" as the god of your own "earthlike" planet with the whole cycle repeating. With more reference to the Mormon book so I can show my friend where it is written in the book that says he too can become a god!!!
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999
I was looking for info on Kolob/extraterrestrials/etc. and surfed on into
your site. Very interesting and informative! I'm an ex-mormon who now
gives the church very little of my time or attention, except when I'm
hiding from the missionaries or other representatives who continually try to re-indoctrinate me. I find their esoteric doctrines and Masonic links fascinating, and am interested in anything on the subject.
Another interesting read: The Gods of Eden>>, which links this occult mormon doctrine to extraterrestrials. While I'm not committed to any belief in ufos, etc., I am a student of the bizarre, and explore fringe theories (like mormon doctrine) with great pleasure!
I also enjoyed the masturbation article. I'd originally read it in <<The Progressive>> (I think) and have been looking for it ever since.
Keep up the good work! Thanks for helping me remember with crystal clarity exactly why I am no longer a mormon.
Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999
Subject: THANK YOU
I have to thank you so much for your web site. I have been struggling for the past several months in discovering the truth of mormonism. It has been emotionally draining to say the least and your site gave me the laugh that I needed!! It really isn't funny the distortions that the church gives us members but as I'm beginning to look back it IS rather ridiculous!! Anyway, I just wanted to tell you thanks!!!
Sent: Monday, August 09
Subject: Non member who attended BYU
It has been twenty-nine years since I attended BYU. This article is amazing. I knew about some of this nonsense but it is definitely treated as the "meat not the milk" of their doctrine. I never joined the church (Praise GOD) and left BYU with disdain for what I saw they believed in. I was so young and naive. I have often wanted to send my Mormon girlfriend my Christian testimony since you know I received hers not long after I left BYU.
We do send Christmas cards but I am no longer invited for visits to her parents home when she is in our area. Her mother gave me a novel to read about the subject you describe. When I was in high school. My mother died when I was fourteen. She told me my mother wanted me to read this book, she just knew it. I took it as fiction. Now, and I find this is hard to believe, I realize they really believe this garbage! Why don't they talk about this in one of their TV commercials? Their true believes need to be exposed more and more. The new Mormon temple is giving tours in Spokane this week. I am really thinking about attending. I want to "people watch" mostly and watch the reactions around me.
I found your site thru #1 on www.exmormon.org. I have spent many weeks on all of the material and there is so much. Thank you for this information.
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999
Subject: You Website
thank you for the manifold laughs I had. I can't take it anymore!!! :-) Here some comments about your superb site. I was LDS for 23 years. Joined the church at age 16, was tracted out by the Elders. I lived in Berlin / Germany at that time. I have British/German ancestors.
4 1/2 years ago I left the church. Had been a missionary (England -Leeds- Mission), married in the temple, had various church callings (member of two bishoprics, high councilor, seminary teacher etc.) About 3 years ago I took my first strolls in the Internet. It was actually an internet cafe in Hanover/Germany, were I was living at the time. After a few hours a made a search on Mormonism. One of the first pages I bumped into was yours. I think Eric Kettunen's "Recovery" was the first and there was a link to yours.
I actually couldn't believe my ides. Your page wasn't as large as it now is, but your kind of humour was simply outrageous! I was actually 39 years old at that time, it was early afternoon, I was in my working cloths (suit), sitting with 40 others folks (most of them kids, age 12-18). Now and then I would ask one of my neighbours to give me hints how to move around in the internet. After I found your page my giggling started. After a while I found the page with the garments picture. Goodness, I just laughed so badly. A bunch of the folks came across, wondering what was going on. Now, naturally these kids have no idea what backgrounds your picture had, nevertheless, their comments were the sort of: "Cool (yep, they use that slang over here too), cloths!", "Great underwear, sexy!", "Huh?", "Geil, ey" (geil, the most coming filler over here meaning randy). Everybody had a great laugh.
I come back to your pages now and then just for the laughs. Great stuff. It has the Monty Python touch IMHO! I just have to see that Kolob/universe picture and I have a big laugh. Keep it up.
I also could need your help. One of your masterpieces is the one about the temple work for the Nazis. Staggering actually! I heard the rumour about it before, when I was still LDS. Was never able to confirm it. Question: You mention that Mr. Roberts has copies of the temple ordinance records. Also
other ICI copies and ancestral file copies. Is it possible to have copies of these copies. I would like to translate some of this stuff into German and make available to a German audience. Facts, proof is important to me. I'm working on a German Website putting the spotlight on the church. Can you help?
Greetings, James Field
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999
Subject: Though I haven't read it all, I find your site intriguing
I especially like some of your replies to comments that have come before,
about not taking what is said on blind faith, and getting an education to
know how things work. Though those already blinded by the propaganda of the
Mormon church (or any church) might criticize you, I support you whole
Sent: Wednesday, December 15,
Hi there, love the site, mean it. Call me Paranoid, and I may sound like
an old senile man with a shotgun here, but this Mormon Church thing is scary!
I think they might seriously be trying to take over the world! I left the
church over a month ago after stumbling onto your site along with about 13
others once I got going. The things I read blew me away! Also helping me
out were the book "The Mormon Mirage", and the great flick SLC Punk, which
every Mormon should see. Well, if they were allowed to, which they're not.
But seriously, the LDS Church is involved in some of the most blatant
document alteration, cover-ups, and brainwashing seen since the days of the
Nazis! Anyone who's read Orwell's 1984, (or has seen the Matrix by golly!!!)
should take immediate note!!! Members are brainwashed and herded like sheep,
and actually referred to as sheep! The money is sucked out, along with time,
work, etc. The Mormon Church is eviiiiiiiil!!!!! Sure they do some good
things, and most of the members have honest hearts, but the bad they do far
outweighs the good. Thank you for caring enough to produce this fantastic
website!! The estimates are that in 80 years the Mormon Church will be 263
million people!!!! WE MUST STOP THEM!!!! I could foresee a day when they
will rebuild the army of Zion, and bring the Danites back into existence!!!
Let's just shut em' down now!!!! All Power to the People!
Thanks, Jared, NC
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000
What an awesome piece of religious satire! I wish I had your talent. I belong to a Tibetan Buddhist sect which has a cosmology just as elaborate and absurd as the LDS do. The fundamentalist mind set among the devotee is just as strong as in the CJCLDS, so of course the humourless idiots believe every word that they are told. (Except oddly enough the gurus, who seem to regard us as just a little more than insane - they treat everything they say with humour and detachment, much the same attitude a parent would adopt towards kids who confuse mythical truth with literal truth).
(PS I'm a student of religion, and I know enough about the LDS to catch most of the jokes).
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2094 1:25 AM
Subject: Heavenly Mother
Hi - I love your site, you have gathered great stuff. I am going crazy with a question - where did you learn that the Mormon heavenly mother's name is Gonhorra?
I cannot find anything online that references teaching about "Heavenly Mother". Some Mormons were excommunicated for talking about it.
I would really love to know where that name came from.
Thanks very much.
Subject: Thank-God for Sanity-
I was a drunken adulterer and frequent masturbator until one day, in the
County Drunk Tank in Evanston Wyoming, I was approached by two LDS
missionaries who said they could change my life...of course I
scoffed...but I chose (being very bored at the time) to listen to them;
eventually I realized that their message of hope, forgiveness and of a
new life was too powerful for me to ignore.
I accepted Jesus as my personal Saviour and those two hot, wet, tight
Provo-county nympho-sluts as my personal fuck-dolls...and baby, we're
still working on demolishing the 10 Commandments...I even let my Bishop
give me head after he watched me lick and penetrate those two
ex-missionaries, although he reeks of whiskey and tobacco...two sinful
substances I abhor. Those are the two hottest women I have ever met...no
wonder you Bishops try to keep them all to yourselves...if they aren't
licking and sucking me they are all over each other! YOWZOW! You all
got a great little religion going, there, dudes...just don't expect me
to tithe anytime soon....
When is the Church Hierarchy gonna become more democratic and admit that
they like to suck and f*ck, as much as anybody else, and that they are
every bit as sinful as we wicked we? It would also be nice of them to
admit to their fraudulent directives, the fact that they treat
minorities like second-class citizens and their women like chattel
property...but I expect that would be like getting The Taliban to admit
they had made a few, relatively insignificant, doctrinal errors in
interpretation of the Koran...HMMM?
Most Mormons I have met are decent and good people...it's the leadership
that is sinful, wicked, corrupt and a bunch of lying bastards (they
obviously took instruction from The Vatican)...
I just wish people weren't so weak and insecure that they fell for this
Can I go now? I've spent all my spleen and need to go, lie down naked
in my bed and *refresh* myself.
Hey, what's up? I recently came home from my mission about three months. I've been a member my entire life. I went on my mission to find out if the church was true or not and you know what? I found out! Yep, I definitely know for a fact that the church isn't true. I mean honestly, let's look at this from a logical point of view.
Of all the arguments raised against the church they really only have a few worn out answers and a person's testimony as an answer, and what is a testimony? Don't they think members of radical religions have a testimony when they strap a bomb on their back and blow up an airplane? If anyone would just step back and look at it objectively, unencumbered by years of brainwashing and guilt, the simplest answer is correct. The Mormon religion is not true.
Well that is basically what I wanted to say, I can't really add anything to your site here you did a good job. I think you would like to know that when I was a missionary various church leaders came to visit us and they said that baptisms and retention of converts were at an all time low in thirteen years and for the last thirteen years they have been steadily declining. Interesting, eh? I also think this is the reason why the church has decided to push building smaller more easily accessible temples around the world. They are trying to stop the flood of people going inactive. After all, the temple is the final and highest stage of the brainwashing process.
I think the whole reason the Church was successful to begin with is because they were geographically isolated for almost 100 years. But now the world is starting is starting to seep in, the hive is becoming contaminated, people's minds are becoming more open and they are trying to maintain but it isn't working. I think we have seen the height of the Mormon Church's power and it is all downhill from here.
I wanted to thank you for your site, I went into it with thoughts that
Mormonism and Christianity were the same, and I left feeling very
differently. My Aunt and I were having a discussion on Mormonism, and so I
decided to look it up on the web, you see I am Presbyterian, and I have many
Mormon friends. I also have a very avid Baptist friend, and she had told me
that Mormonism is wrong, and her theories on why (including that Mormons
added onto the Bible, when it says in Revelation that adding to it is a sin)
but my thought was that if you believed in God and asked his forgivness that
you would go to heaven, and that how would we know that Mormonism is wrong,
have we talked to God, I know I have, but he hasn't sent me a burning bush
telling me that Mormonism is wrong, not yet anyway. And so, by looking on
your site and many others, I have learned much more about Mormonism, and now
I have a lot more questions, which maybe you will be kind enough to answer.
1. how was God first a human, how was the Earth created, how was Adam and
Eve the first people if God was on the earth before them?
2. How can mormons call themselves Christians when:...
[ a LONG list of technical bible questions -- deleted ED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18
Subject: UK TV Show
I'm Assistant Producer on a show called 'Frontal' that will broadcast in the
UK on Channel 4 from August 18th. Each week we are going deal with all the
that is current in popular culture.
I have been on to your web-site over the last couple of days, and its
fantastic and in particular 'The Mormon Guide to Masturbation'........Is
this for real??
Either way I'd like to make contact with you, with a view to doing a feature
on the above.
Tel: 0044 207 462 9612
Tel : 0207 462 9612
Fax : 0207 462 9566
Mob : 07718 566 813
Thank you for your humorous and revealing Web Page. I already was in the
process of leaving the Church but had never actually SEEN the garments so I
do thank you for that...I have that image emblazoned on my brain of what I
would have been stuck wearing for my whole life, day in and day out, had I
continued to the Temple (I had my recommend in hand when I began to doubt)
I do feel a need to share that I want to remain a Christian. I do believe in
God's grace and the gift of his Son. He loves us all, especially you! I
hope that you can feel his love one day. Thanks again for the entertainment.
It was hard for me to see the humor at first of almost being sucked into
these obvious lies but laughing helps! THANKS.
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000
Hello there! I found your site through a Google search (on "atheism") and I must say, it one of the more entertaining and interesting sites devoted to the subject that I have seen. Since your site deals with lighter material, as well as the serious stuff, I wanted to call your attention to an original song by my band, which you and other fellow-atheists might find amusing. It's called "Fuck Christianity." Our live performances of the song include stage business with a giant papier-mache Bible and, at the end, tossing a bucketful of tacky Christian trinkets and the goofiest tracts we can find, into the audience. You can hear the song and see performance photos by clicking on the following: http://www.odorofpears.com/gallery/fuckx/fuckx.htm
I hope you enjoy it.
Ha ha ha ha ha! That's really funny! The Jive Version killed me! I hope
that you don't get into trouble with the Mormon Church for this because it's
Keep up the good work.
Date Sun, 5 Mar 2000
Subject ex mormon
So glad to have this info. I never knew this was around when I removed my name from the records. had to learn the hard way. keep up the good work.
Sent: Thursday, April 12
I just read your entire webpage (it took me a while). I loved it!
I too have serious doubts about what they're really up to. I would even go
so far as to conclude that Joseph Smith didn't write those book at all, and
was probably written by a mob of theologians, whose intentions (whatever
they may be) are probably based on as much truth, enlightenment and faith as
Ronald McDonald. In every religious text, you always find these ambiguous
truths about beginnings and ends (not to mention the middle part). Even in
the Greek Hesiod (their creation story, which begins 'In the beginning there
was chaos, then came broad bosomed eart......sound familiar?), and moreover
in the bible, 'nothing, light, God, Earth, blah blah'. Well, the same goes
for Mr J Smitty....they could have made ANYthing up about how it started. I
mean, who was there?
I'll tell you what would be nice, and better to study...a REALLY old 'big book of M'...I reckon that little baby has
been updated a whole bunch of times! Ever wondered why they publish so many? All the Mormons I know
are always getting new ones...and they're so boring, they'd never notice little changes. It'd be like noticing
that a bit of tomato moved in your tomato soup! Anyway, what happened to the bit about polygamy anyway?
I can't find it? Taken pout me thinks?!
The connection with the Masons also raises serious worries? I mean, tithing, just where does it go? Hmmm?
'Charity' they say, but you know, charity doesn't = giving money, or am I mistaken!? Whatever, SOMEone is rich.
But anyway, God being all knowing knew I'd think that....and in fact, he
knew everything I have, and am about to do. So, if I'm 'evil', he would
have made me in the knowledge of that. Kind of like making a car, with a
wheel loose.....you KNOW it's gonna come off and crash. So IF it's true,
when you die and get judged, don't be surprised if HE doesn't look
An important thing to remember is that the victors also write the history.
And a though crossed my mind that went along the lines of our friend Luke
Skywalker and his chums! What if Satan isn't a bad guy at all? What IF God
is this mean, old, grumpy sugar daddy to a thousand wives kind-a-bloke, and
Satan is this cool freedom fighter? Well, what I do know is that IF this
brilliant hoax IS true, is that Satan will need some 'physical' people to
help him spank the big guy. And if that makes me a Satan worshipper, then
all hail the horned king!
And as a final note...if a religion can infiltrate your own personal
sexuality, what CAN'T it do. That's one of the most human things about
us....we even have 'bit's made especially FOR that. A good read is
Nietzsche, he has some stuff to say about religion and how is was made.
Weak people who converted 'good and bad' to 'good and evil'. Makes sense to
me! "He has more money than me, and gets all the girls....crap, he's EVIL,
I'm GOOD, cause I'm chaste (AKA ugly) and humble (poor)!
Anyway, have fun....and try to be human, for 'as the shadow of God
encroaches, so does the shame of being human'!
Oh dear, poor mormons!
Thank you for reporting!
How I rate this site: 6 of 7 ( http://nowscape.com/mormon/lot/onan1a.htm )
Remarks How did you hear about us? Comments?
There should be more in your website about how when Lot fled,
after his wife turned into salt....his daughter got him drunk
and had sex with him to carry on the family name.
Nobody ever talks about it, but there it is, plain as day.
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001
Subject: Thanks for an amazing laugh...
My father was raised Mormon and never bought into it. I used to get beat
up on the way to school in Salt Lake City for not being Mormon. Somehow,
when I mention this to missionaries when they come to my door, they all
manage to look a little ashamed. I wonder how many nice "gentile" kids
they had to harass before earning the coveted title of "elder"...
I admit to having a certain amount of bias against the LDS church, but
your site is just amazing. It'd even be funny if so many people didn't buy
Ok, it's still funny.
© Photo courtesy Department of Astronomy, Brigham Young University
If You Could Hie to KOLOB
If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward with the speed of light to fly**,
D'ye think that you could ever, through all eternity,
Find out the generation where Gods began to be?
Or see the grand beginning, where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation where Gods and matter end?
Methinks the Spirit whispers, "No man has found 'pure space',"
Nor seen the outside curtains, where nothing has a place.
The works of God continue, and worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; there is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; there is no end to race.
** Revision 6-8-2002
Keep it up. I'll apologize for finding the Mormon religion ridiculous on a
cold day on Kolob (where, undoubtedly, I'll be doing my womanly duty as a
perpetually pregnant wife (along with the 1000000000 others who share my
husband) after having been baptized post-mortem by my overzealous
Which makes me wonder...you wouldn't happen to know if there'd be any way
one could have a legal injunction placed against the church so that they
CAN'T baptize that person after death? Not that I'm really concerned with
the way this works in the theoretical afterlife, but I find it sort of
Anyway, kudos on sticking it to the Morons...er...damn, the backspace key
doesn't appear to be working.
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001
Subject: Your web-site
I want to thank you for such a refreshing and truly fun web-site.
I am sorry that I cannot credit your web site with my leaving the Mormon
Church. I had already had enough before I found the site. I began to
question, and as I did so, the members whom I had trusted and thought to be
my friends, began treating me like some sort of plague bearer. I ended up
being an outcast, which is interesting in a Mormon environment, because they
still pester you, they just shift it from home teachers and elders quorum
members to missionaries.
Anyway, I left the church about 3 years ago...actually my whole family did.
My wife confessed that she had joined because of me and had problems all
along. Well that is past, and we have a much happier life. We do not rely on
anyone anymore. We have cut out the middle man. If there is a God or creator
or whatever...I will take care of my relationship with them...I do not need
a priest or bishop or anyone else to intervene...and I will not be made to
feel guilty because someone died for me..I didn't ask him to, and as far as
I am concerned, if it did happen there was a ulterior motive anyway!
I suppose my only comment would be that Mormon's aren't the only ones who
deserve to be picked on. I think any group that bases it's entire system of
belief on a book (or compilation of books) written by a bunch of guys, years
ago...with no ability to even confirm the author, let alone the
content...this book, having been solely in the hands of an entity whose
entire existence relies upon people believing in the book at a time before
type-setting, so changes could be made without anyone noticing...anyone who
guides their life by that book is very sad indeed. One note...the very book
that I am talking about, which professes love to all and a following of 'the
golden rule, has an account of a prophet of god causing a bear to maul some
kids in the name of the lord, because those kids had called the prophet 'old
Anyway...as you can tell I am quite the cynic when it comes to religion,
particularly (but not limited to) Christianity, with a Mormon emphasis. I am
not outwardly this way, however, believing firmly that people should believe
what they want, especially if it makes them happy.
Thanks for the web-site. If you ever want some guest material for the site
let me know, I'd love to contribute. I have some good takes on the Mormon
experience, from a temple going, elder (not to mention 10% losing).
I was a Mormon Missionary in Seville, Spain from '86 to '88.
My experience as a missionary was a bit different from what
we always heard in church meetings would be "the greatest two
years of your life". Not only did I discover my own homosexuality
while on my mission (thanks to being given the opportunity to live
in close contact with other handsome young men (many of whom were
also gay, by the way!!)), but I was also
able to see through the giant deception which is Mormonism, and
all of Christianity in general.
I would love to provide a link from your website to a website
which hosts a radio program I recently participated in creating
about my experiences as a gay Mormon Missionary:
Finally - I would never have been able to break free from the mental
shackles of the LDS cult had it not been for the concerted efforts
and zeal of iconoclasts and philosophers like Friedrich Nietzsche,
and of course, like the venerable authors of this website!!
Thanks so much for your "good works"!!!
If it helps just one poor mor(m)on see the light, it's worth it..
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001
I found your website purely by chance while looking to expand my knowledge of religion. Although seemingly well researched it appears little more than a spiteful attack on those of the Mormon faith by a man with a childish sense of humour and too much time on his hands.
So well done for that. When one has a childish sense of humour and too much time on ones hands what better thing to do than make spiteful attacks on such woefully stupid people. I live in Sydney, Australia, which they’ve decided, is somehow ripe for conquest. Every time I go to work there they are, every time I got to the gym there they are also.
"How you doing?" they ask with a distressing friendliness.
Often I reply with an equally friendly "Fuck off you wanker!" but it doesn’t do any good. With beatific grins they insipidly answer "Jesus loves you!"
On my way to work today I saw one of the white-shirted fanatics in conversation with an Indian. Thanks to your website I was able to interrupt and point out "According to the book of Mormon people of your skin colour are actually cursed by God. Are you sure you want to talk to such racists" I much more satisfying exchange. With the aid of your site I can now ask them "Are you wearing your magic underpants today?" or "Tell me again about the men that live in the moon?" Set about annoying them for a change.
Thank-you so much for creating this site. Oh, one question. Were any of Bingham Young's wives underage? If I’m going to accuse the Messiah of being a child molester I’d like to be sure of my facts.
Subject: Hi... TR
Hi! Great [satiric ] site.
Why not also put some info on the paper quality etc on your page
with the temple recommend?
Is the pic 100% size?
Is that really where the paper is folded?
Ubi dubium, ibi libertas.
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001
Subject: I take back one of my earlier criticisms of your Mormon page.
A long time ago I criticized you for [saying]* certain things in your webpage. [...] People might assume that's what Mormons really believe and Mormons might give your work less notice than it deserves because of the [interpretation] on those few items. After becoming more upset with their system of beliefs and practices and recently reading some of the replies to your Mormon site I'm now thinking that my earlier criticism was unjustified.
I think you have a special ability to [explain] the Mormon beliefs that should be encouraged. Others can criticize them point by point, identifying what Mormons believe and why they are ludicrous. Your method is different, but also effective. The replies to your pages show to the more skeptical readers how gullible most Mormons and others are even when faced with such an obvious case of [correctly-translating] Mormonism.
After noticing others liked it, I read your Jive [Ebonic] version of the Masturbation article. I thought it was great. Did you do it, or did someone else do it for you?
Could you do Jive versions of more talks by the Brethren or parts of the Mormon scriptures? This could be as influential as political cartoons.
Keep up the good work.
* [Some items in brackets were edited. --Ed.]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001
Subject: Catholic with thanks
Wow, this web site nearly saved my religious sanity! Thanks! I'm 14 years old and a devout Catholic. Although this web site seems heavily atheist-run, I don't mind. Even though I am pretty bright and well educated in my faith, I was drawn into Mormonism by missionaries. But of course in my naiveté due to age, I was suckered into their "we are the true church" bullsh#!& and all of their revival crap which I think appeals to people that are in religions that use a lot of sometimes over-repeated traditions and ritual (They're important, though) . I think this is a great web page for it also displays the idiocy of the Mormon religion with a ton of laughs. Anyway thanks for inadvertently keeping me in a religion that uses both brains and faith.
I'm an atheist in Texas. My wife and I are working on a costume dictionary and we stumbled upon the concept of Mormon underwear. We would like to include any terms and possibly some drawings the would describe the garments. Are there specific names for them? How many different kinds are there? Is there a catalogue from which they can be ordered?
did the LDS Church pull the Handbook?
btw: absolutely awesome website. I have spent hours on it, and as a non-LDS, Utah resident... have learned much.
Thanks for spending the time to put this together and let me know If I can be of any help.
You guys have a great sense of humor! I was laughing so hard I almost choked!
Keep up the good work!
> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002
> Here is something you might like!
> Hi Mary, take alook at this...ha ha. Handshakes, garments, negros,
> wankin, you name it its here...
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002
Subject: "Mormon Masturbation"--yet another anti-article opinion
No offence, but I think your site is ridiculous. I am not a Mormon myself (and I don't know anyone from Utah), and I have to agree with a lot of the reader responses posted.
Throughout the article, you supply information, then fail to source it. To many, this gives the impression that you made everything up, especially when there is no actual evidence to support this
Then you say that it is a sinful practice, "dirtying" the body. How you came by this conclusion I shall not know, as Christians also regard sex with contempt (and your religion is, as far as I'm aware, an extension of the Christian belief). However, in the Bible, there is a book that is about the joys of sexuality. In fact, it was never said that intercourse was a sin if it is consensual.
And your advice in overcoming masturbation is also ridiculous. "Do not lie in bed awake, no matter what time of day it is". That to me suggests that I should be roaming around at night (and I still live with my family). Your aversion therapy isn't just going to repress masturbation, but it also will repress sexuality--as soon as a man achieves erection, he will be turned off and it will be impossible for him to reproduce. And then you encourage people to humiliate themselves. Some do feel comfortable with nudism, but there are a lot that don't. And you're humiliating those that don't. Especially when they are physically unclean.
And your advice is directed at men only. Most girls masturbate too.
The site is ridiculous.
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004
I thought you might be interested in this. I was selling Temple Garments on
ebay until this morning. It seems that my auction drew a large amount of
media attention. Several stations including the NBC affiliate in Salt Lake
city did stories on my auctions last night.
Two of them can be seen here:
Due to an outcry from the LDS community ebay decided to cancel my auctions,
although they have no official policy against selling the garments.
However, I still have garments to sell. I'd appreciate it if you could help
me get the word out. I know that it makes Mormons upset to no end that I'm
selling their sacred garments, however I think it helps to de-mystify the
mystique that Mormons have tried to build up around them. You can tell folks
who are interested in a pair to email me at moodyclan--at--comcast--dot--net
EBAY REFUSES TO LIST MORMON UNDERWEAR
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:39 AM
Subject: PI NOTICE: eBay Auctions Cancelled - Prohibited/Questionable Item
> Dear Andrew T Moody (....),
> eBay appreciates the fact that you chose to list your listing(s):
> 3460967399 Mormon LDS Endowed Temple Garments 2 Pair
> 3461006245 Mormon LDS Endowed Temple Garments 2 Pair
> 3461007138 Mormon LDS Endowed Temple Garments 2 Pair
> 3461223422 Mormon LDS Endowed Temple Garments 2 Pair
> with us. However, we have determined that your item is inappropriate for
listing on eBay. Therefore, we have ended this listing(s) and all fees have
been credited to your account.
> The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and Intellectual Reserve
are VeRO members of eBay. The garments produced and sold by the Church
cannot be sold on eBay without express written permission from Church
headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah. We ask that you not relist these items
unless you have received expressed permission from them.
> Additionally, eBay has always exercised judgment in allowing or
disallowing certain listings consistent with the spirit of a worldwide
community. Therefore, eBay will judiciously disallow listings or items that
are not consistent with eBay's core or community vaules. Listing items such
as the temple garments that are generally not publicly available and where
the sale of such items could be highly offensive to members of the LDS
religious community, is not consistent with eBay's core values or our
> For a better understanding of our listing
> guidelines and how they affect the way you list your items, please visit
the following URL:
> For information on eBay's policies regarding prohibited or restricted
items, please view:
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please be aware future incidents of this nature can lead
to the suspension of your account. We value you as a member of our community
and wish to continue this relationship, so we must ask you to refrain from
any violations of the Listing Policies or User Agreement in the future.
> We thank you in advance for your cooperation.
> Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005
Subject: Job Opportunities
My wife and I are not Mormons. We have been in Utah for 1.5 years and my wife has been denied employment from multiple firms she has applied at. We have heard that when a person applies for a job, the chances are that the company will check Mormon church roles to see if the applicant is LDS. If not, that person's application is dropped into the "circular file" (meaning, the garbage can). This seems to be a subtle way of getting around the Equal Employment Opportunity laws set up by our Federal Government. It is obvious religious discrimination. I know a lady...not LDS...who applied for jobs for over one year, and at one doctor's office, she was frankly told, "You don't wear the right underwear"; which obviously referred to the "temple garments" worn by Mormons. Why can't something be done to stop this obvious discrimination? We moved to Utah from Florida, and if I had known how the Mormons had such control over the job market, I would have stayed in Florida.
Please comment on this matter. There must be thousands who have encountered the same non-Mormon prejudice.
A great site this is, humorous and informative. The "Kiss Hank's Ass" story is a killer !
I've always thought of religious people as folks who are willing to shut down their sense of criticism in return for membership of a community, having their ass licked by a thousand angels in the afterlife, or all-too-easy peace of mind down here. Therefore, this site is a delight for the intellectually honest.
As a European, I'm only familiar with Mormons from their infamous door-to-door crap-selling. It doesn't happen that much over here, luckily. Jehovah's witnesses are by far the most common lunatics.
So I had a good laugh, but I must say that most Europeans can have a good laugh about the way Americans in general deal with religion in other aspects of life. When an American president does a speech for instance, and stately investigates the ceiling of the press room for those five last words: "... and may God bless America."
Two dumb things in one: patriotism and religion ... I think that never ever gets any less funny and stupid. Reminds me of the Pope on his balcony. If any president, prime minister or even king would ever do that here, he'd be the laughing stock and scapegoat of the entire country for weeks (except for a minority of hardcore traditional Catholics and protestants). There would be questions, complaints and cries of scandal about it, in parliament and at Supreme-Court-level. Guaranteed.
Personally, I think the reason why so many people get so easily influenced is that most people do not have a proper view of the world and the universe anymore. Science has always been attacked by religious forces, or at least they seriously clashed. It helped plummet the image of science.
I'm by no means a b&w positivist, but I am convinced that science, in the definition of Karl Popper, is the only tool available to expand our knowledge in a intellectually honest and independent way. It does not claim to have answers for everything and will always remain a human-built model, but at least it offers every human a way to try and come to similar conclusions about universal things. Its direction is kosmos, while the effect of all religions together has always been chaos.
From: Lee Simmons [firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:06 PM
Subject: Just a thought
I recently was linked to your stuff on Mormonism. It seems you have other links also but I thought I would send you a short answer I always use to anyone trying to convert me to anything.
If your god is so great and wonderful and able to such things then it would be obvious to all that we should change to your belief. As there is no proof of this greatness other than your word then I must presume that the only reason you are attempting to convert me is that you wish to have me verify your belief by my acceptance of it. This is not belief my friend, it is the doubt in your heart and mind that makes you go forth and try to convert. If you had no doubt you would not need to convert others. If your god were as great as you profess then it would be obvious to all. Go and look into your heart and mind and see that what I say is the truth.
Lee C. Simmons, Ph.D.
I'm pleased when people challenge you to post their comments and you do. I was once like this guy in many respects. He caught you in a few of your inventions. Nevertheless, some replies you might consider are the following:
--Mormons used to treat blacks as if they were inferior. Some of us Mormons still do. Any claims to the contrary is mere white washing.
What is this about?
--Why do you think it's impossible for spaceships to travel between domains of different Gods? Light and charged particles successfully do so. Do you think Elohim is only God of our Galaxy, Local Group, Supercluster, or what? If lots of His brothers are also Gods, what are their domains? Where will you be God when you get to that point?
--If you don't think Gonhorra or Kakistocra are names of Mothers in Heaven, what do you think her name is? Don't tell me we don't know because it's not necessary for our salvation. The name of the brother of Jared has been revealed, and that's not necessary for our salvation either. If knowing Mother in Heaven's name isn't necessary then knowing Father in Heaven's name isn't either.
Keep up the good work.
hey, loved your site.
one problem i have with Mormonism that i realized as i was on a mormon
mission (now safely home) is how Mormons are allowed to drink beer --
but they don't even know it!! In D&C 89 where it describes the godly
uses for grains.. it states that mild drinks made from grains
(paraphrasing here) are good .. i.e., beer. I'm glad god left the beer
part out of that revelation. too bad the Mormons don't know it.
> KRP wrote:
> Cool. BTW, did you write to the people you converted to apologize for
> converting them? :)
not really.. i went to the MTC and then spent 5 months in Russia.. by the
time i left, i was just getting to the point where i could actually 'make
a difference' (ruin) in someone's life with the language. I thought about
writing to a girl that we taught anyway, but she never really believed
what we told her. :)
Thursday, February 07, 2002
Subject: Re: got a chuckle today - nowscape.com/mormon/mormcr1b.htm#Handshake_pics
Just wanted to thank you for the chuckle today. It was so funny that I told my entire e-mail list group about it. What happened is, I clicked a link on another web site and was taken to your page on the temple ceremony. At first, I was a little upset about it, as we hold the temple ceremony sacred and not to be discussed in detail outside of the walls of the temple. It was then that several things about the photos caught my eye. I had been to the temple long before the changes in April 1990 [1990 Version] and afterward, It might also interest you--or not--to know that I am a Master Mason. At any rate, you might want to know that the penalties are wrong (the positioning of the arms is quite a bit off as they were NEVER crossed during the execution of the old penalties), the tokens are wrong (wrong fingers used), and the older gentleman on the right is wearing a LADIES' apron (at least that's what the tag says on that type of apron)! Heheh. Thanks again. In context, you're a rather funny guy. :-)
P.S.: Please don't 'xpect me to tell you how it's all really done. You won't get a reply. :-)
32°, K.T. Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed Nomini tuo da gloriam.
Sunday, February 17, 2002
Subject: Mormon information
Thank you for all this information. It is very strange that people would
believe all this stuff.
I think they tend to target the less educated people in general. Now they
are focusing on South America and the Pacific Islands.
They use the hook of moral and family values to bring someone in. They also
seem to have all the answers too. So long as you believe and follow. They
don't go into the weird ideas until later when the person is already deep
I wish there were people going around telling the populace about the Mormon
religion to counter what the missionaries are telling them. It makes me sick
that the Mormons are going around to the impoverished, backwards countries
and create a market for their racist religion and make their tithe income
from them. It's sad what this American religion is doing. Once again the
slick con artists in their nice suits are raping the poor people of this
world and preying on their ignorance.
Why doesn't someone legislate against them? Maybe remove this tax-free
concession for religious bodies.
I am well-informed I think but even these people are past-masters at the
pushy salesmen technique when it comes down to it: how can you argue against
belief? Yes, i respect a person's belief but these Mormons patently don't.
They coerce the belief on to you. They really are the best at getting "yes"
from the "customer". They know how to make you feel bad, ignorant or sinful
if you don't go with them. If you get angry with them and tell them they
have no right to do what they're doing they politely act so smug.
Of course this reasonable outward face drops when they encounter someone who
knows about their religion, usually an ex-Mormon, then it's insults,
innuendoes and outright attacks on the person's character. Why? Because
they're on the defensive. They know the ex-Mormon has got weapons to hurt
I am not a Mormon but never have been but I think people should warn others
about what they're getting into, because it seems like getting out is a big
problem. There is a big psychological fallout when somebody does: shunning
Thank you for your nice letter, Tania. Of course, Mormonism is different only in detail from other religions. Legislating against religion is probably not an idea that will work in the US, because of the separation of state and church, supposedly guaranteed by the US constitution. The state is supposed to be neural on the issue of religion. Of course, this neutrality is violated, when the sate gives tax exemptions to the church. I think your idea of taxing religious bodies is constitutional and should be done. (After all, only a fool would have a false religion.)
My friend who owns a coffee shop said 2 Mormon missionaries used to stop at his shop and goof off for hours there instead of doing their door-knocking. I remember they came on pretty strong at the campus when I went to uni. They were really fanatical and I would argue with them about creationism.
That Kiss Hank site is so accurate. They put in things like family values, not drinking caffeine to reel them in, like who doesn't agree with these things?
Everyone has a glazed look about them like cult followers do. So do other religious people, especially the born-again Christians and other
fundamentalists, but the Catholic people and the other religions less so.
It's amazing that you were a missionary, weren't you, and now you run an anti-Mormon site.
That Joseph Smith story is so absurd, it smelt fraud outright to me. It's ridiculous anyone would be taken in by this conman. But if you were born into Mormonism you are taught not to question anything.
The anti-Mormon sites gave me a good laugh actually. I am going to send the link to my friend as it is a really funny site.
March 06, 2002
Hey, just dropping a line to say that I appreciate the tremendous amount
of time that must have gone into this massive website over the years.
Links everywhere and very well edited too. It's hilarious and
informative too! You've inspired me to (try to) read the book of
mormon just so I can make sense of what you're saying in some places,
and laugh more.
Please, though, come clean: do you fabricate at least some of the
inane responses you get? Some of the mails in both the for and against
categories read like idiots or eight-year-olds wrote them. I only wish
you would put a year-received note on the dates of the e-mails you get,
that's all- just for curiosity's sake. (This one is 3/6/02, readers)
Put me down in the "loved it" category- I'm sure I'll be perusing this
site for months!
Nowscape for a webby!
Friday, March 08, 2002
On one of the internet sites there were three pictures of JS as the church has depicted him over the years. One of them is on your website and I have printed it out. The other two show him in the evolutionary process of finally looking like the boy next door as in the LDS video '"Legacy." Do you have these other two pictures so I can show them to my sister?
Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Your site's great- very informative, etc. A couple fans of my comic have asked why I'm not linked on your site, and I replied with "because". So, here I am asking if you'd link my comics; and in return, I'll link you as well-- or send cookies, etc.
My comic, Those Darn Mormons is at onelesssock.com/tdm/ ;has been up here and there since 1999. It's about two gay missionaries; a werewolf; and a black elder wanna-be that doesn't wear pants (see "cast"). The current comic is in the middle of a storyline, so it may not make sense; but there are 66 animated comics to look at (made in 1999) to view (see "archives"). There, that's my story. Now I can tell those fans I contacted you.
From: Dave Johnson
Subject: Request for more information
I love your website!
But you have some things that I'd like sources cited. I'm currently working on a Bible class dealing with Mormonism that I will begin at the end of the
month and would appreciate your help, please.
On your site you show a photo of stars with this text - "In late 1999, Mormon astronomers at Brigham Young University, using the Hubble telescope,
obtained faint images of this star, which they tentatively named Kakistocra-99b2." I have scoured the BYU website as well as other sites
looking for confirmation and/or support on this and have come up empty. Where did you get this info?
Again - your website is one of the best I've seen on the LDS faith. Thanx for your hard work!
Tuesday, June 04, 2002
love your site. i am an ex, looking forward to the day they find out
about my fornications and libations and cast me out thusly. keep up the
From: Christopher Munson
Tuesday, August 06, 2002
Subject: If You Could Hie to Kolob
I reckon that leaders of many wards are anxious about what potential
converts will think if this hymn is sung in meetings--maybe that's why it
has fallen into disfavor. However, the last ward I attended before leaving
the Church had music personnel who much loved the music for this hymn,
therefore we sang it regularly enough. This is pure speculation, but I
wonder if the hymn setting currently used, which is adapted from Vaughn
Williams' Variants on Dives and Lazarus*, which may still be under
copyright, isn't there in midi format because of legal restrictions? Well,
that might work for explaining the absence of a midi file but doesn't
explain why they don't list the words there (and we already know the likely
reason for that).
*Looking at the version of the hymn you have shown on
nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-hi.htm I see that it uses an uninteresting
musical setting, much inferior to the current one. Anyway, I understand
that the original tune used for the current Kolob hymn setting is common to
a number of traditional folk songs, such as "The Unquiet Grave" and "Star of
the County Down," all of which have poetic, wistful and humanly-resonant
lyrics, in stark contrast to W.W. Phelps' sterile verses. I have heard a
couple of beautiful versions of these old folk songs, and these have helped
to purge the music of its mystical Mormon associations that it used to have
for me! Now I think of charming young maidens, and pining after lost love,
instead of Kolob and pseudocosmology, and believe me when I say it's a vast
Friday, September 13, 2002
Subject: mormons and Kolob
First of all I wanted to tell you that I am Mormon & I really like your site. If you could hie to Kolob is one of my favorite songs, although the version I'm used to is a little different. The words are the same (from what I can see) but the music is different. This song is still sung in church & to my knowledge there is no controversy about it. I have never heard any doctrine against space travel, nor do I find it unusual that some people would lip-sinq a song (I would lean more towards - dude knows he can't sing but wants to participate). This song is still found in the Mormon hymn book, there is no coverup or conspiracy. The bass line in our version is very difficult so that might be one reason it isn't one of the more common hymns sung, but I do hear it. With over 300 it's difficult to give many a lot of exposure.
Thanks & have a great day,
Subject: tons of information!
I came across your website when I was looking to know more about the Amish... I am a Mormon and I have to congratulate you. You have worked hard. You and those who helped, have spent a lot of time on this. I have a terrible time finishing anything I start. Therefore, you have to be commended.
As to be expected, I do not agree with some of the stuff you have placed on the internet, but heck, that's the beauty of this wonderful country that God gave us, that of free speech. God Bless America!!
Subject: what the?
moon men? is this really in mormonism? my god. what the hell is this crap?
"When our leaders speak, the THINKING has been done."
At 12:36 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote:
Here is the MIDI file of If You Could Hie to Kolob. I can 100% assure you that what is here provided matches the sheet music you have on your site (and yes, it's supposed to be that slow). However, the MIDI that you have now (KOLOB_kingsfold.mid) is anything but close to that song.
I'm not a Mormon, but I do collect all kinds of religious song books (I'm up to about 130 now). I've got this song in Hymns: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (1948). It's #257.
I'm not quite sure what the aim of your site is. It's satirical at best, poor taste at worst. Is there a disclaimer on your site that explains the site? What are you beliefs? Are you solely against Mormonism? Christianity? Religion in general? It's not quite clear.
--- Srmiller972@aol.com wrote:
My husband and I are both new converts to Mormonism. Together we were
researching more in depth, the way of life that we have chosen. To us, that is
exactly what Mormonism is- a way of life, not religion. We want to thank you
for your site. It has given us the motivation to further investigate the things
that we had not thought to question. As a result, we are so much more
determined to live our beliefs and be active in the Church of Latter Day
Neither of us have ever been more sure of our decision.
Once again, Thank you. You will be in our prayers along with your
Subject: Hey, has your site been hacked?
Fri, 17 Dec 2004
When I got to the page nowscape.com/mormon/mormons5.htm click on the link http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormons5.htm labeled translatedcorrectly.com I get sent to nowscape.com/mormon/mormons5_corrected.htm
This looks like a hack. The red stuff is defensive and not really correct.
Fri, 25 Feb 2005
Subject: Mormon burial rituals
I'd only recently heard of the burial rituals of the Mormons; could you address this topic on your site?
Sat, 26 Feb 2005
i was raised in the mormon church and was forced to go all of my life. Everything you have said in your site is true. I was always very curious and asked a lot of questions, but no one would answer me. I was told just to "have faith". What a load of crap! The day I turned 18 I left the church and never looked back. I feel sorry for the people in my family and the ignorate people that still believe in this crap! I think that you are providing a great service to everyone who reads your site. I have spent my whole life trying to get over the guilt that my "family" and "friends" have made me feel for sinning and going against the things that the mormon religion teaches. I am so glad that there is someone out there that actually has the balls to speak the truth! And my advise for any "member" of the mormon religion, RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN! Thank you so much for your site and keep up the good work!
----Ex member and loving it!
From: "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:07:25 GMT
Subject: Egyptian Alphabet & Grammar
I think my website pretty much makes your's look silly, and dumb too.
You appeal to those who don't have much of a brain.
Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:50
Subject: Love the site
I started doing some research on the Three Nephites
and came across the web site. Nice stuff. Not exactly
what I was looking for, but a treasure trove of odds
and ends that will have me doing MUCH more research
into the LDS. Particularly interesting to me, from a
sociological point of view, is the overlap between
Mormon doctrine and the beliefs of the "ancient
astronaut" saucer cult types. So Quetzlcoatl is an
alien AND Jesus... but Jesus is an alien too from
Kolob so... yeah. Good stuff.
I also got a real kick out of the letters page.
Sometimes the only thing more fun than slaughtering
sacred cows is seeing the reaction of folks to the
bleeding beast kicking in the street. And I LOVE
seeing people quote their own beloved scripture wrong.
Jesus doesn't say "don't judge" he says "judge not
LEST YE be judged". In other words, don't dish it out
if you can't take it. Plus it's just silly to fight
about at all. Faith, by its very definition, is that
which we accept without direct evidence. Why should I
waste my time trying to convince someone of something
I believe when they are demanding direct proof that my
faith doesn't require? Conversely, atheist who get
bent out of shape over religion confuse me too. I
don't get bent out of shape over the tooth-fairy,
because I don't believe in her. Granted, I don't have
the tooth fairy shoved down my throat every day, but I
ignore it, for the benefit of the little children,
because they like believing in the tooth fairy.
So, as a professed, non-denominational christian, just
wanted to let you know not every person of faith is
offended by the site.
From: "Tania Carrington" <email@example.com>
Subject: A Revelation
Tue, 30 Aug 2005
Whilst contemplating whether or not to join the Mormons having been visited frequently by two charming young men I stumbled across your site. Well it helps to have both sides of the story doesn’t it? The two young men were due back on Monday and had asked me to pray to God so that I may know that Joseph Smith was a prophet and his book is to be taken seriously. So I prayed and prayed. My husband and I have never discussed religion, his beliefs are that all religion incites war and being a soldier he therefore does not favour any form of organised religion. Well anyway I was walking to the shop having prayed for three days for some sign and stumbled upon a dove who was about to be mauled by a cat. His wing and leg appeared to be broken and he had something trapped in his beak. I brought the dove in and telephoned the animal welfare who told me they were to busy to call. I had by now promised God that if the dove lived I would see it as a sign from him that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet. I took the dove to my own vet who explained that the bird had merely been scratched. She gave it an antibiotic shot and it seemed extremely perky once she had removed the obstruction from it’s beak. She told me that the dove had a very good chance of survival and had been extremely lucky. She then asked me if I could care for the dove while it recuperated. I replied that I could and said I would go back after a nights observation and collect it.
When I arrived home the Mormons were waiting for me. They told me I had been blessed and that God’s carrier of the Holy Ghost had crossed my path. They also told me that Christ is in all of us a fact of which I am aware having been baptised at the age of fifteen. They told me that God needed to lay his hands on me and then told me to give up smoking and dress more appropriately so I could not be guilty of inciting temptation in other men. (I was wearing Jeans and a t-shirt). They then left me a book true to the faith which basically told me how to live – even down to planning my Monday evenings. I was relating this to my husband when suddenly he erupted into a spiritual flow the like of which would have left Martin Luther King reeling.
He said to me that I was already a daughter of God, that he had placed a mark upon me the moment I had been baptised and this mark meant that Satan would send false prophets to shake my faith. He told me that the Church of Christ is in the heart of all men, that we are born with that. He asked me why I was losing faith and turning to a sect that was so pompous and controlling it even tells members when to pray and worship. He said that if I needed to be told when to pray, how to pray and when to worship then I was in fact faithless. I looked at my husband in disbelief as he had not heard a word of my earlier conversations and normally displays the typical beliefs of an atheist. He then (remember the Mormons had said this earlier) laid his hands on my head and said God has already laid his hands on you, you have felt him move in your life and the only temple is the temple in your heart. God is not sickened by your flesh, you were born naked. He then said he would never worship at a cross that had caused Christ so much suffering, just as he would not worship the crown of thorns or the spear of destiny. He said Christ died to give mankind choice because God could see that the world was set to change dramatically and that many false religions would grow in the name of Christ. So I knelt with my husband and I prayed and for the first time in my life I felt my church within. I felt peace that God loves me for all of my individuality. He accepts that I have Sin and it is those who exalt themselves that truly sicken Him. My husband explained that having never belonged to a church he bore no mark of God so Satan’s advocates always overlooked him. But he told me that every day he has his time with God and it’s not a timetable on a Monday night that is dictated by mere men. For the first time in my life I know the truth.
The following morning the vet telephoned me and told me the Dove had died she said he had been unable to swallow properly. I will not be joining the Church
Sat, 5 Nov 2005 17:04:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "brian Alb" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Sincerely hope to exchange banner or text link to achieve win-win cooperation!
I am writing to you for a partnership with you. You have a great site and I think we can cooperate well. Would you please accept a quality dating site with nice banner?
Our site is one great dating site for LDS singles and friends. Its PR is 4 and the traffic rank is about 186,143, hundreds of new customers join us every day and many users buy our gold membership.
We are wondering if it is possible to place one small banner or text link on your homepage? In return, we can pay you $20 for each paid member you drive us and link back to you at our partner page or homepage.
If interested, please email me back and I'd like to tell you more in detail.
Hope to hear from you soon.
5334 Yonge Street, Suite 141
Toronto, Ontario M2N 6V1
Question or Doubt?
Subject: Mormonism - My Story
Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:44
I don't even know where to begin with this. Lets see, YOUNG, STUPID...I've had a lot of strange things happen to me since I was a child. Things that you just can't be explained. My father didn't believe in all that church stuff, so at the age of 12 my sisters and I would sneak out to go and learn about church and why these things only happen to me. It was a Baptist church....wow, so I kept searching. Married, way too young; a drunk didn't work. I met this guy and I didn't want to get really involved cause my divorce wasn't even final yet, but a year after I was dating him he decides to tell me he's a Mormon, not a week or a month a freakin' YEAR! See that's how it starts. You get to know their parents, their friends and then they get the missionaries over to talk to you. I've heard about Mormon's, he seemed like a nice guy.
Deep down I knew I should have stayed away but you see I've never been so spoiled like that before. I mean eleven brothers and sisters on a musicians pay, hell we were poor and this guy showered me with gifts; what does it say about money...ummm. When he told me he was a Mormon I told him that it wasn't going to work out for us, shit I just hate when a man cries. So guess what? Yeah your right, I married him; I know......WHAT THE HELL WAS SHE THINKING! The Mormon's in my opinion are HYPOCRITES. I've seen it all too well. I wasn't raised that way. To be one person at church then come home and go back to your old ways of doing things, maybe some of them of the world don't but I've seen it with my own eyes, they do. There like night and day; but then again so is a lot of other people out there. I guess they think there better than the rest of the world because, WHY....there freakin' Mormon's. They are trying to hold up to the only "TRUE CHURCH", they claim is on this EARTH...BULL SHIT! I have been inactive for over 6 years and don't have no desire of ever returning back. I was deceived, not told "UP FRONT" of these so called "RULES" they have and you have to do to keep a temple recommend. You can not drink COFFEE, SMOKE, no ICE TEA, OR HOT TEA and no caffeine sodas, which you probably already know, so I want to know why they eat chocolate doesn't that have caffeine in it or not?
Then you take a temple class to help teach you a little about the temple. Once you have completed the class your then set up with an appointment to go through the temple and NO THEY DO NOT TELL YOU ABOUT GARMENTS till you go right through the process of the ceremony; oh keep in mind you have to be a member to go to these any of these classes and let me tell you, STRANGE isn't the word for it. They say your suppose to feel spiritual when you go through the temple. I have NEVER felt so uncomfortable about doing something like this in my entire life, like I did that day. Remember I have this, well I can't explain it, but let me tell you there was a lot of negative energy there in that building, I avoided everything not to go back there [sic].
My husband's family been members down his generation so he wouldn't see it as strange, that's why they baptize the children at 8 years old, they only know one church, like "BRAIN WASHING". These Mormon's emailing you don't see it cause "THERE TOO FAR GONE". See they should have told me everything prior to joining, they didn't give me that option, see just like the man I married took a year to tell me. I guess if they did people wouldn't join, now would they? Ha Ha. I never gave up my coffee, I've been drinking coffee since I was 13 and I love coffee and No Ones going to tell me what I can and can't have. I played along with it for a while until, see I know to much now of the bible; thanks to a real good friend. I can't go back and I can't do this with my husband anymore, I'm a changed person, I see things differently now. So I'm going back to school and getting my songs heard out there once again.
See, my husband is active, that's how I came across your web site, he needed new garments, wanted to know if I could order them on the Internet. Why do they need those? They are blinded fools. They claim that it protects them from the evil world out there.
See what pisses me off so is, they tell you it's so great to join their church but THEY NEED TO BE UP FRONT ABOUT IT.....LAY THE FREAKIN' CARDS ON THE TABLE, like this is how we believe....this is how we do it....when you go through the church you will take many classes on learning how we do it in our church, etc., etc. Which later you will need a temple recommend and you will need to go to a class for that also. While finishing the class for that you will then be made an appointment to walk through the temple and be shown how the process for that will be and be fitted for some special SACRED garments that you will have to wear everyday and everywhere you go and we cannot tell you anymore than that till you become a full member....BULL F.......SHIT. Oh, If you decide to become a member, in the summer be sure when you go swimming you dry off ASAP and put them back on because they will protect you. You won't need to go shopping at the department stores for underwear for you will only need to purchase ours. They come in cotton, Nylon, etc., you wear your BRA over the top, you put the top on first then put the bra over that....COME ON YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FREAKING' KIDDING! That is how it is done, but this shit needs to be told BEFORE you join. For them to keep coming around here I have to talk to my ward; which by the way is hard since my husband's a member, I have found out that different wards have different rules and regulations...ummm don't surprise me. If you don't know what wards are let me know and I'll explain. I have to talk to the Bishop at my ward ONLY to get my name off their roster, which he doesn't know I'm getting my name off, believe me they will try to just get me to come back, won't happen. Where does it say in the Bible that Adam is God....where did they get that from? I read somewhere that Joseph Smith got his vision from putting his head in a hat. I thought God was of light not dark.
People need to start reading the BIBLE. The LAW is right there in the book. Do the research. These churches, religions are of this WORLD, they don't follow the book. They make up their own rules. One email that I read from your web site that made any sense was Sirhood.
I just wanted to express my feelings on this matter, and if you put this on your site, well, I'm sure I'm going to piss off a lot of MORMON'S. Tell them do the research, have an opened mind, check the King James Bible out, NOT THEIR KING JAMES MORMON BIBLE, I've done my research and compared the two, just a regular King James bible, he tells it right there in it.
Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:04
Subject: questions please
Dear Sir, I just read through some of your website and found it informative and entertaining. You seem knowledgeable in Mormonism and willing to talk about facts without the normal whitewash. Please could I ask a couple questions? You could answer at your convenience; just let me know where to look (I'm pretty hurt'in on the computer).
I live in Utah County and have for 8 years. I do have some very devout Mormon friends here who have accepted us for being plain good people but many have shunned knowing us, even with lots in common. We are very nice friendly non-judgmental people. Neither religion nor any interest in any, just want to be good Americans, faith to country, family and friends. The whole do unto others" thing.
How does the majority of Utah county Mormons feel about people like us living in their community? Are they allowed to be friends with us according to scripture? I know they are not to marry my children (that's hard enough) but will my kids be shunned from play as they grow?
I don't want to talk anyone out of religion. But how do I discus my issues with the culture of Utah county with my friends without them feeling like I'm attacking everything they stand for? I don't want to loose them to my questions.
BUT, I feel if I don't ask questions (if not just to learn why) then I'm condoning behavior towards fellow man that I feel is wrong according to the US constitution, basic human rights. If I ignore it or just deal with it and not ask, to me it's a chicken shit way of condoning it.
I have so many more questions but that's a start.
Thanks so much in advance.
Deluded in Utah County
Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:43
I guess I'm an atheist. Was raised going to church every week, well forced. I even worked for a Catholic church (lay employee) for 3 years during college. To me all big religions are money makers not saviors. I see more trouble around the world because of religion than anything else, if there is a god, he's got some explaining to do.
My questions are more for my own interest. When we first moved here I thought the community thing was pretty cool, the people here reached out to us. My wife did some stuff for the relief soc, I lectured to some of the youth groups but always telling them no thanks ahead of time on the conversion stuff, thanks, but no thanks. They tried harder and I said no thanks harder until finally my great neighbor told the ward to lay off us, they're ok. Since then the hands that reached out went away, they don't say hi as we drive by, in the stores we're ignored. Now every time I hear someone say a "non-member" I get pissed. I've been pretty quiet but now I reply with "non-member by choice" I have the ability to think for myself.
It's not that I want to fit in, I don't care. It's my children, I don't want them excluded.
But this all in vain. We will be putting our [business] up for sale this year and getting out of this horrible place. Yes, and leave with a very negative image of the mormon church. I have been getting more and more angry but yesterday I read something that has changed my mind (for now). It said, "don't hate mormons, hate mormonisim, mormons are victims" That is so right. Some of my friends are in so deep they will never know what I'm saying to them, they've been brainwashed since BEFORE birth. We have friends that play tapes of mormon verbiage to their pregnant bellies. I can understand music but that! Creepy.
As for the constitution, I'm not a nut for it, it's just the best example I could give at the moment. I just would like to be in a place where people are treated somewhat evenly. I know that's impossible but at least in other places than this the intolerant are usually a bunch of idiots who don't know better. Here in Utah, even more so in UT county it's not the idiots, it's THE governing agency teaching 90 something percent of the people that garbage.
Ignorance is ALWAYS right, no matter what you say, isn't it?
Deluded and Damd
Subject: good drivel
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006
You have enabled great amazement in me about these Mormons. I cannot believe
so many have lobotomized themselves, and that there have not been more
deaths within their ranks from laughing to death at their own ordinances. If
I did not know better, I would think you made it all up. Good work guys.
Ever look at the other cults?
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:46:24 -0700
Subject: Where did you find this information?
I have lived in Utah for 6 or 7 years... I do not remember exactly because I vowed never to return!
I found your site from Wikipedia.org and I look around a bit... where did you amass such information? The pictures and all the inside the temple stuff!
So what is with the "moon-men"? Where are you getting these references? Can I find the journals in a book store or order them from a Mormon site?
I am not sure how to go about this Mormon investigation, I want to make sure I have the correct info, WIKIPEDIA lists you as a site that makes fun of Mormons? If you are a source of information to be trusted then why would you be listed as a Humorous link? And why do I not see anything that collaborates your findings on Wikipedia?
Please help me understand...
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:40:17 -0700 (PDT)
In WA there were a lot of LDS mormons around, and I couldn't figure out why one of those younger ones wouldn't leave me the hell alone, any time I went outside, there they'd be, I'd offer them a coke and cigarette to try to get them to go away and they wouldn't (I figured it'd be like mormon krytonite haha) after reading this it's like I've seen the light, they were just trying to avoid strokin' one out! I hate to think that I was taken in the place of a good ol' fashioned wanking....kinda makes me feel dirty in a way......but anyways found you on best of craigslist http://www.craigslist.org/ lol.
At 03:09 PM 4/17/2007
Subject: Thank you
My friend, your website rocks, I wanted to thank you for all the hard work you have put into this, I have been studying and looking into the hypocrisy and ignorance of the Mormon CULT and all religions for the past 10 years or so, you see unfortunately I have made the terrible mistake of having a child with a Mormon mother, I have fought her and won custody of my child, but trying to defend his mind from being pounded full of ignorant bullshit will not end as soon. We have been to court 4 times in 11 years and each time it is like I am going up against the Mormon alliance, they pay for her attorneys, and in a family court I am not allowed to even mention anything about her being a member of a religious cult.
I read once you referring to yourself as lazy, well my friend that may be the only thing I have read of yours that I do disagree with, this I know takes an enormous amount of time and effort, I thought I knew all the crazy shit there was to know about Mormons, but you have definitely taught me a few things and the pictures and cross references you have provided are great. I applaud you my friend thank you.
At 03:10 PM 5/12/2007, you wrote:
You have a wonderful explanation of the history of racism w/r/t the LDS, but then you have a “jive” version of the masturbation instructions. I’m not sure how offended, if at all, I should be about it, but I think that your site would be better served without it.
At 10:43 AM 5/13/2007, you wrote:
Here's my fear. I'm making an assumption here, and it could be wrong. My bet
is that most of the people that frequent your site are exmos or at least
live where they aren't exposed to many blacks. And given the history of
racism of the LDS church, and that mindset that I think probably still
exists with a bunch of its members, I think this attempt at humor could hurt
more than help or been seen plainly as an attempt at humor. I'd hate for
people to be like, "Yup. Those Negroes sure are stupid."
I'll leave you alone now. It would be cool to see a page about the Indian
Student Placement Program. I know someone who was royally fucked up by it.
From: "Gardiner Moody" <email@example.com>
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007
Hello, I was searching Google for my own name and I came across an old email I sent to you a few years back. I just wanted to let you know that since that email, I've become an atheist and I've discredited, publicly, my faith in Mormonism.
I've become an outspoken community leader for Atheist action, and one of the most recognizable critics of Christianity and religion in general in my county.
I receive hate mail on a daily basis and I've even had death threats.
Anyway, I hope you'd put this as an afterthought after my previous email. 
Update: Gardiner's NEXT emails 
From: "Kathy" <***@earthlink.net>
Subject: ++ Nephite Sighting Report ++
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:40:16
I just happened upon your site.... It is GREAT.... I haven't laughed this much in weeks.
Keep up the good work
Subject: search google images: I'm mormon
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007
I am not Mormon, but, raised as a gentile in Idaho I have intimate experience with what Mormons can do in the name of faith. As a gentile, I was constantly made aware of my cursed lot. Thank you for helping to flesh out this mystical perception of reality. I have linked to your site as a main-source for the niggling details of that leap of faith. I have images on my site that may interest you. Try google image search: mormon money, mormon sphinx, I'm mormon. That will take you to pages that will, possibly give you some satisfaction. My take is satire but with that painful irony that presses to the persistence of doubt.I hope your traffic is improve by my links. You are welcome to link to Scari.Org as well Again thanks.
Criticism: You could update some of your pages with better images and layout.
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007
Hi! I was looking at your site, nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-hi.htm, and noticed the reference to the Kingsfold tune. This a hymn tune that is attributed to Ralph Vaughn Williams ca. 1906. I think it is an English folk tune he discovered. It can be found in the Hymnal 1982 from the Episcopal Church and I am sure other churches use the tune in their hymnals.
Thanks for the great site,
Your response misrepresents his tithing comment and ignc1res a key doctrine of the LOS Church.
You call [the writer] misinformed" for saying that Mitt Romney "must" pay tithing, But [the writer] wrote only that Romney, as a "good" Mormon, must pay tithing. Latter-day Saints commonly view a "good" Mormon as one who is worthy of a temple recommend. No Mormon can have a temple recommend unless he is committed to paying a full tithing. Therefore, [the writer's] comment is correct.
You say "Mormons do not tell others that they will not fare well in the afterlife unless they join" the LDS Church. This is a half-truth because it fails to mention a key LOS doctrine; namely, that only members of the LDS Church can achieve the highest order of heaven, the celestial kingdom.
It's best not to cut comers in defending the church.
Response to This letter to the editor in the Deseret News, Dec 10, 2007
Agnostic Person 12:16 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I can't argue with pure logic that [the writer] brings to our attention. I am an agnostic and throughout my life, I have had people from various religions try to convert me to their faith. Their religious doctrine varies somewhat from religion to religion and each individual will mention that his/her faith is either somewhat more truthful than other religions or that his/her faith is the only true religion. This odd behavior from religious people is what prevents me from converting to their various religions.
Article Last Updated: 12/14/2007
During a recent interview, presidential candidate Mike Huckabee (R-Baptist) talked about fellow candidate Mitt Romney (R-Mormon).
Huckabee posed the question: "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"
The question was perceived by some as an opportunity to hold an element of Mormon theology up for ridicule. As a Mormon, I wasn't bothered because, well, it's true.
It gets weirder. Not only is Satan our brother as well, he looks exactly like KSL meteorologist Kevin Eubank, only redder.
OK, I made that part up. But Mormons do believe a lot of things that seem pretty strange, if not downright crazy.
So do you.
Imagine that the average presidential candidate rings your doorbell tomorrow. Male, affluent and not visibly deranged, the candidate offers some really cool ideas about running t he country. He wants your vote.
Before you can answer, the candidate casually mentions that the driving force in his life is a profound belief in a cosmic walrus that sets the world spinning each new day with the force of its benevolent flatulence.
As the average American voter (Christian), your response would be laughter followed by incredulity. In parts of the country, you might even be legally entitled to assault the candidate.
After all, the real god is a shape-shifting entity, born of a virgin, who cured blindness with spit and busted out of his tomb after being lynched - a god you periodically honor by ritualistically eating him so that he won't kill you when he comes back.
Well, that wasn't really fair, was it? I hope not. Since when did religious belief ever have anything to do with fair?
Muslim, Pagan, Christian, Jew, Buddhist - one of the great ironies of all spiritual belief is that cold, brutal logic should be applied to every version but yours.
If you're Hindu, for example, you might find the idea of Christian communion ludicrous. Why would anyone even pretend to eat a god? Conversely, Christians find the notion of God having the head of an elephant completely ridiculous. Extra arms? Ha! We don't even want to talk about one with multiple sex organs.
What's going on here isn't real logic. It's not even insight. It's simply comparing your beliefs against those of others and egotistically concluding that you are the only one who can't be dismissed as an idiot.
Incidentally, this is a human condition that affects secularists as well. The absence of religion doesn't make people moral anymore than its presence guarantees morality.
Is religious belief bad? It damn sure can be. People are certainly bad when they become contemptuous of others, and rel igion far too often provides us with the place to do just that.
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 01:39:37 -0400
I got home Sunday and have been in bed until this morning, sick, so I haven't responded.
In Lima, Peru, (Barranco District), I saw a concrete lamp post. It had the letters "LDS" cast into the concrete horizontally, about 4" high. Immediately underneath, vertically were the letters "SCAM". I saw it from the bus, looked at another pole, and there it was again on another concrete pole. I got Margaret to snap a photo, but I think it didn't take. It was on at least 10 or so poles along the street. Too much to be a coincidence, I think.
L D S
I'll get a photo if possible. Perhaps you know someone there.
On Aug 9, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Dennis *** <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
I somehow, in surfulating the world wide interwebnet, ended up on your site, specifically an exchange you were having with a scholar with knowledge of the blood, or lack thereof, of his Heavenly Father. You masterfully yanked that poor Saint's figurative crank in a manner, if may I be allowed to share, quite pleasing to the comedy Therans (sorry to switch denom's but I'm studying both LDS and Scientology diligently prior to deciding to which I shall affiliate.)
Sent from my iPad
Stan Shepp writes...
York, PA Center of the Universe
A conversation with an apologist
[external: The Worst Mail]
Fawn Brodie; No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith
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