~~|~~~ THE THANKS I GET... ~ NowScape

Subject: Mormast Web Page Respose Post

I am a convert since seven years, and I masturbate,
but am overcoming it now with renewed determination.

Masturbation may not be harmful physiclly, but it's a
solemn mockery of God's gift to pro-create, and
whether delayed or not, the guilt will eventually set in.

- Ciel -

Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000

What the FUCK is this dibble? Yeah, I am not very polite, I can be as
offensive as the next guy. With offensiveness in mind, and referring to my
original question, what is it that you are trying to accomplish with this
"site?" I guess perhaps you find amusement in "fondling the dander" of
those who reside within the "Wasatch curtain" (or is that the "Zion
Curtain?" It matters not) or any other enclave of LDS'dom? You can't
honestly say that truth is your objective here. However, I do see a good
deal of objection to truth. It's all bullshit. I don't apologize folks, I
don't hedge my remarks in politically corrects terms or any sensitivity to
"diversity", I call'em as I see'em and I damn sure don't celebrate the
"difference." Yeah, 1st ammendment reigns supreme, and I am very glad of
that, (I just wish that some of you free speech et. al. types would be as
willing to "fall on your sword" over the 2nd...), and I darn sure wouldn't
deprive you of that right. But it does baffle me greatly when I observe the
effort that goes into producing this shit, and this is just what this site
contains, pure unadulterated shit. Nope I don't HAVE to partake, however
this slime did "ooze" into my home, and thats what REALLY pisses my off.

AND I didn't have anything to do with "oozing." Ii really galls me and
chaps my ass that y'all are probably sitting some place all fucking smug
because another one of those Mormons have to deal with your sense of humor
without you asking my permission. Yeah I know, I can't put the damn genie
back in the bottle but, A) Who ever your sources are, they just don't get
it. And they really miss making ANY point by expounding on "half-fact or
half-truth" and delving into speculative inuendo. B) Do you really think
you are bringing up anything startling and new, hell no you're not. Well
atleast Jerald and Sandra (no matter how far you think you can distance
yourselves from the Tanners) can give to you a false sense originality,
welcome to their cottage-industry. You'd ought to "massage" yourselves back
to reality by researching into what the "sunstoners" and the 7th East press
types (They maybe a bit before your time come to think off it.) were
publishing a "few" years back. C) Atleast if you you are going to make an
credible attempt at publishing this "stuff", atleast for the sake of the
English language, try to use correct spelling, sentence structure and
grammar. Oh yeah, and a good proof read wouldn't hurt either. One last
thing, remember me lamenting about having to deal with your sense humor,
just remember (again without deferring to political correctness) what you
may think is funny and humorous may not be to me, conversely what I may
think is funny and humorous may not be very funny or humorous to you. I
doubt seriously YOU would appreciate my uninvited frivolity and humor, you
just wouldn't understand.

No I am not going to sign this note, you already have the name and address
up above.

PS: If this were a work place which of us would find this material meeting
the "Harrassment" criteria associated with creating a "hostile" workplace,
not conducive to productivity?

Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000
Subject: What does the picture of the Mormon Missionary mean?

Is this a joke or is this how they learn their discussions?
Pic: [ http://nowscape.com/mormon/blinder.jpg ]

Greg

Rev. Gregory A. Mahdesian
Web Site: http://home.beseen.com/churches/mahdesian/index.html [defunct 2007 - Ed.]
Pawtucket, RI USA

-----Original Message-----
From: J C
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000
Subject: I don't care if it is all a lie, I'm staying mormon

You really shocked me with some of the things on your antimormon site. I
must admit I was being reeled in. Did your hate(?) of organized religion
come from some bad experience? I too have had bad experiences with
religious people, however, the foundation of a faith is not invalidated by
their actions. If I were to read every book on your list (I do have one of
them on order now) and conclude that the LDS church were a complete
fabrication I would still remain an active member. What possible harm can
come to me? I will be as the writer of the Search for the Book of Mormon
and appreciate the organization for its' temporal value.
Thank you jerk.

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000

Subject: Kolob

Hey, I came across your site, and I have to say it was kind of weak. You spend so much time arguing about this Kolob business, yet this is not at all something that is taught in Mormon churches. You had bascially no evidence to back it up with, either. Did you ever think to consider it might be a metaphor that you don't seem to get? I bet you that the average Mormon hasn't even ever heard of Kolob. *shrug* One of many weird fallacies I've noticed on your site.
It seems to me that someone as bright and as interested as you in philosophy might try and at least study enough on his subject to even half-impressive the average layman like me, but I still managed to assimulate your biases. All-in-all, a relatively uninformative site.

-tveyes

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I
have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as
many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific
laws and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim
the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for
her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around
us.
A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians.
Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't
agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you
can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.

http://www.StopDrLaura.com/home.htm

Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000

Subject: mistaken link

I'm sorry to have bothered you. If you go to the following site, and click on "email here", your address is linked. It makes it look like you are associated with this site. Perhaps you will contact American Atheists and tell them they have the wrong link. Wayne Everett Orgar

http://www.nowscape.com/atheism/athnames.htm

Subject: Ridiculous

To begin with, I stumbled upon this page and thought it was a joke--I really did. To begin with, I don't think any one of the thousands of religions and religious factions that are out there realize what they are dealing with in terms of God. Whatever God is, be it He or She or some large energy field, it is very, very complex and is definitely not scornful. Although this is just one more damn point of view, I honestly feel it is one of the easiest to digest. It's funny when one thinks about the large array of "holy" texts that exist and the fact that many of them contradict each other. I am not an aethiest, I am an agnostic: I ask questions. Above all, I pray to God. I also jack off multiple times daily. I am male, and 21 and I still remember being 13 and experiencing my first orgasm. I think pages like this are disgusting. True, in ancient times people didn't have the medical technology to know if masturbation was good or bad. But now, we do. Don't like it? Well too bad because God (some think it's Satan!) gave us the brain power to get here. I am currently dating a mormon (I'm not mormon) and it has been a wonderful experience yet a haunting one. She is wonderful, but her church scares me. I stopped calling the LDS a cult for awhile, but now I've sort of started again--it just seems like an artificial Christianity++ with Masonic derivatives. Don't get me wrong, I love Mormons and I uphold many of their charitable beliefs. It's just that I've grown tired of hearing the bullshit prophecies and philosophies that have been fed to her with unrelenting compulsivity. This experience has strengthened my beliefs and created self-reliance within me.
Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna go jack off.

Sent: Monday, July 10
Subject: SICK

YOU ARE AN UNEDUCATED SICK PERVERT GOD WILL HAVE HIS REVENGE ON YOU SOME DAY

Things in [brackets] were added later -- ED.

Mormon Sacred Underwear

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000
Subject: RE: The Mormon Religion

Item 1: The Priesthood undergarment.

It is not a "Good luck charm/talisman". Directly stated in the temple and
elsewhere, it is worn as a physical "reminder" of covenants taken in the
temple, and of one's faith. It is the remembrance of these covenants and
one's faith that is the spiritual barrier and protection from evils. Also,
the garment's shape and design are aimed at helping the wearer to be in the
habit of dressing modestly (which also keeps it "sacred" - if it was
"secret", I wouldn't be discussing it with you). It will not, however,
protect you from a broken leg in a game of football or ward off evil spirits
like some kind of trinket. No LDS member is ever told that the undergarment
has magical powers of any kind. That is fabricated propaganda by Non-LDS or
Ex-LDS folks seeking retaliation for excommunication. Nearly every LDS site
I've ever seen is in the habit of painting this "magical good luck
underwear" picture for the sport of ridiculing it. A true "Tannerism", if
you will. By the way, have you seen the latest craze in underwear fashion?
Or British Military underwear? Exact replica of the LDS undergarment (check
out the attached Calvin Klein example called the "Jean Luc" - look a little
familiar?). Getting harder to spot Mormons by their underwear every day...

More to come.

Bob

Dear Bob --
I forwarded your comments to one of my mormon informants. Below is what she said. (I apologize for not pasting our entire email exchange into this web page. The apologies and bible quotes seemed too trite and uninteresting.)

In a previous email, you say "Mormons are told to wear the garment at all times, and that it will act as a barrier from evil." Next you say that "I can see how this could be misunderstood as the garment having actual powers or something", and "THEY ARE NEVER TOLD THAT, HOWEVER."

You can't have it both ways, bub. If mormons are never told of the protective power of garments (from evil) then they cannot also be told of the protective power of garments.

Dear Bob --

I emailed with one of my Mormon informants today, a
holy-underwear-wearing female, forty-ish. She replied, and I quote:

==================== My first Informant's reply ======================

"You are given your garment as a protection and shield when you
receive your washing and anointing."

Dear Bob --

This shows that you are wrong or, which is not uncommon amongst
mormons, disingenuous. I'm inclined to trust my other sources more
that you in this regard because of this [deception].

My informant told me in conversation later on today that yes, the LDS
church even furnishes special olive drab colored underwear for the
military. This coloration is the same as that of the normal army
uniform. Obviously, the army color was chosen to offer protection
from the enemy. I hope it is not your claim that the LDS church did
not choose the same color for protection also.

So we now see at least one case, in which mormon underwear
is designed for camouflage -- to effect PROTECTION against enemy
bullets. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for your claim that the mormon underwear in "It is nothing more
than a physical reminder of your covenants, values, beliefs and faith.
Nothing more." is, in my opinion silly. Why do mormons the not need
other memory-aid apparel to remember, for example [the commandment],
not to eat meat (except to during inclement weather)? This is one admonition,
like that against smoking, issued directly by one of your main saints.
Perhaps mormons should wear a turnip around their necks, so that they
can remember that commandment. Or would a piece of liver be a better
reminder? When is the last time you bit into a juicy burger?

Mormons might take to wearing pointed dunce caps, to remind them not
to be stupid. My informants have no reason to lie. It is obvious
that mormon garments do not offer protection. You, possibly having
recognized this, choose either to deny the mormon-claimed efficacy of
garment wearing, or you chose the mormon knee-jerk path to lie about
what you likely know to be otherwise. I'm sorry, but I can only offer
the ignorance or liar hypothesis to your denial of what all of my
informants unequivocally tell me.

==================== My second Informant's reply ======================

"Yes, when you receive the garment you are told that it will protect you from
harm (spiritual and physical) whenever you wear it, so long as you honor your
covenants. (See loophole, anyone not protected was either not honoring their
covenants or (in the case of missionaries who die on their mission and can't
ever be viewed to have failed in that way) they were so righteous that their
death was really because god needed them to do missionary work on the other
side.) I heard countless stories of people who were in car accidents and
were "saved and protected" only in the areas covered by their garments. I
have two theories on this 1- that it was random chance or 2- that it was the
power of their mind.

The garment is the physical manifestation of the spiritual covenant that the
believer makes in the temple. This physical manifestation carries great
power for the wearer. Any sacrilege done to this garment carries heavy
spiritual penalties-- to the point that should the garment become worn, it
must be disposed of in a certain manner. The markings on the breast, belly
button and right knee are to be cut out and then either burned or cut up,
and then the entire garment should be carefully disfigured so that an
unbeliever (or one not yet initiated) does not see the garment in its
entirety."

==================== My Third Informant's reply ======================

"I was interested in the claim by one writer that the Temple Garments were a reminder of important covenants and a protection from evil, but not protection from physical harm. As a Mormon I have been taught by Bishops, Stake Presidents, Sunday School teachers, Seminary Instructors, General Authorities, etc. that the Garments could provide physical protection as well. Stories of people physically saved by the Garments were sometimes told in Sunday School, in Sacrament Meeting talks, and at social gatherings. One of your LDS sources gave reasons for the common existence of these stories."

Link: The Sure Sign

Subject: your website

How could you possibly put out such rash on a
websire...oh, let me guess your free agency?! At
least I know I don't have to worry about meeting you
on the other side of the veil since you won't be going
to the same place as my family and I. The Temple
ceremony is not secret...but SACRED which I am sure is
a word you don't even begin to understand.

I know I belong to the true church on the face of this
earth and that my life has meaning and
purpuse...somehow I don't think the same can be said
for yours.

=====
Charity never faileth....

Linda Palmer

Hi,

Well, I have taken the wise advice of my husband-to-be, and will no longer
be reading any hate literature or anti-Mormon sites. Although I feel that
you are at least partially sincere, your site contained things offensive to
me and that I felt went against the church.

One thing I can tell you, from what I remember, is that Kolob is not the
dwelling place of Heavenly Father; it is a planet that is near to him. Here
is a link to all the occurrances of the word "Kolob" in the LDS standard
works: http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=Kolob

I also didn't recognize the hymn tune you had posted on your site - it's
different from the one in the hymnal (which is very pretty). You can view a
current hymnal at a meetinghouse near you or maybe you can order one from
http://www.desertbook.com - I'm not sure.

The third thing that I took exception to is the categorization of the song
as "Mormon humor" - if you or someone else finds mirth in our hymns or our
beliefs, that's one thing. But the title "Mormon humor" would seem to
indicate that we are making a joke out of it, which we are not. We hold as
sacred the contents of all our scriptures and revere the hymns as praise to
the Almighty God, who will not be mocked.

I apologize if this is not the response you were looking for, but I can not
revisit your site to rewrite your section on "If You Could Hie to Kolob."
You will have to do that for yourself. I do hope that you'll do your
research and use credible sources.

Sincerely,
Trish

hey.. im not a mormon or anything, i just wanted to write you a comment on
your page, i really dont know anything about mormonism, i was just looking
it up, because today in Religion Class (i attend a Catholic school) we were
talking about them, and seeing from your page, if you really want to know
about mormons, why dotn u just ask them yourself? or goto a mormon page that
will tell you what they believe, instead of this... cause i dont know what
to believe cause i was at both, and masturbation, is cool and all, but for
mormons maybe they dont want there youth to do it, because they dont want
them thinking about stuff they shouldnt be, it all kinda falls into place,
and i have not seen a religion that has been put doen and criticised to
much, then any other, and if they were a cult how? i thought they were a
religion who believed in jesus.
oh well i dunno, anyway about this church being critisised alot, its weird
because a few weeks ago i was reading in the bible, and i dont remeber where
exactly we were, or i cant recite the verse quite as it was, but it said
something like this "My Church will be criticised alot" or whatever, so it
seems kind of weird
thinking that "Jesus's chruch being put down... mormons"
i have been to utah, and if u see their atmosphere, its quite nice... and
for you, why dont u bring up your religion instead of putting one down,
theres no point really.... if u think about it. strong mormons are going to
stay with their church, and they are going to be tested ,,, but having faith
in god, if u REALLY have it, they wont belivee what you say...
sorry but its true, mormonism is a Religion, and one of their commandment or
guidelines or something says "let them worship how, where or what they may"
and that is so true, if they dont make fun of us, we should let them worship
god how they want to, and do stuff in their temples. if they believe in it,
i say they can, its part of their church
well anyway
lates

Dear Mormonism for Dummies,
I was most entertained by the humour in your website. I've lived in the
Middle East the past few years and have seen many religions Christians,
Jews, and Muslim, but none have I seen more devout and true to their honor
than Mormons. Yes Mormons are in Palestine. We have a saying from the
Koran that says "Lakum Dina-Kum wa Lia Din." Simply meaning you have your
religion and I have mine. It's people like you that stir contention. No
wonder there's so much trouble in the world. People like you try to tear
down the good others do by focusing on the bad. The Mormon people have done
more good for the people in this land than you could ever know. While you
focus on worthless ideas, why not see and show the good they are doing.
Your time will be better spent. Just some advice to someone who is
obviously not open other ways of thinking, but thought I might try. Allah
Ma'ak Nuur ala Deen

From: Audrey
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001
Subject: LDS

I can't believe you are writing this garbage. I am a child who is a
member of this church and I have very strong feelings that its real.
You say we're bad people and that we're evil but look at yourselves. Do
we make catholic or luthern hate websites. We believe in our beliefs.
I can't believe you're actually posting this garbage and telling people
that its true. I really wish that all of you would really consider what
you're doing here. Mormons really aren't bad people and they really
aren't sheep and they aren't a cult. You all really need to consider
what you're doing to people and their children. I am the child of
mormon parents and we live in a happy warm home. We don't practice
poligamy now and you haven't even read any of our doctorine and you
don't know anythings about us so you can't say what we believe in. You
say we're not allowed to read your garbage in all of your e-mails but
you know what I read your e-mails and websites just so I can prepare
myself for all the e-mail in the world. How can you feel good about
yourself when you go on websites and insult innocent people. I know in
this country that we have freedom of speech, but is this really what it
was meant for. I am child and I know that my church is true and I don't
care what you think.

P.S. I know you won't post this because this is the truth and you only
want to post garbage and lies.

Just read your corrections page and i noticed that by the end of the page you
succumbed to the oldest trick that satan has at his disposal.......

anger.

The strongest principle of growth lies in human choice.
George Eliot

who was not a mormon.

g.

This site is SOOO full of crap, it's a shame to know people like you are out there.

I am LDS (Mormon), and that's NOT what we believe at

-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:08 PM
Subject: unsure

I am actually unsure what planet you are from. All that you say on your side is absolutely impossible and rediculous. I myself am not a mormon, but i know those who are, and i have read their book of mormon. Not once have i ever heard of what you write. Either you are crazy, dellusional or just a liar

Most mormons don't know these things because they only read the BOM, and not the other official mormon literature to which I make reference on my web pages. But even the BOM is provably wrong. The flora and fauna described in it are wrong. For example in the Americas there were none of these during BOM times: iron, cows, horses, silk, elephants, coins... You ought to read up on mormonism, science and biology, etc, before you so glibly call someone a liar. I don't think you are the tings you called me, but you are either uneducated or stupid. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are an ignorant, selfish, and sorry person. What does it mean to attack
someone else?

It means that you are afraid. You are afraid that the L.D.S church is true.
I am 100% sure that you yourself is a member, or was a member
of our faith. It really makes me sad to see someone with so much
knowledge use it in such a wastless, and tasteless fashion. Why don't you
use your knowledge to help people instead of tear them down. I wish you the
best, and hope that maybe one day you will realize the big mistake that you
are making, in publishing such garbage. To associate your name with the
things that are displayed on this page, I can only wish you luck in the last
days. I hope that your heart will turn to the other side, and maybe...you
could help your neighbor with some chores, or fill your heart with goodness.
It feels so good to help somebody else, please...try it!

Your friend

Hi, I just wanted to say that I enjoyed your web-site. I resigned my
membership when i was 18. I don't ever like to make fun of or disrespect
other peoples religion but everything on the site is true, doing it in a
humorous way is therapeutic at least to me. It helps to be able to laugh at
out there, I think it can help a lot of people. Thanks.

-Karen

From: Karen
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001

It's just been in my best interest to not get mouthy about other people's
beliefs. I've let myself be at peace with Mormonism because I'll never be
able to change it. Religion/people do stupid, harmful things but it
usually, not always, comes down to the people not the actual doctrine in
and of itself. Just my opinion- obviously Mormonism is an acception [(sic) - ed.]
to this. If others and yourself choose to go about it the way you do that's
fine- it disrespects itself because everything on your site is true. I've
just found it's easier on myself if I let it be, I can't spend my life
being mad.

-Karen